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Old July 10, 2013, 05:31 PM   #26
ColColt
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This is what it looks like today. From Saturday to today shows the progression of blood spread. It will continue to go south due to gravity. Looks like a car hit me.


Last edited by ColColt; July 10, 2013 at 05:42 PM.
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Old July 10, 2013, 06:13 PM   #27
g.willikers
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Bet you have more respect for those old timey buffalo hunters now.
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Old July 10, 2013, 06:41 PM   #28
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You don't have to go any further south, I believe you.
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Old July 10, 2013, 06:51 PM   #29
alex0535
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Lighter bullets, less powder.

From the look of your bruises, I would consider using a lighter recoiling rifle if this is what happens when you shoot it. As much as you probably want to shoot it, it seems like more than your body is capable of handling.
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Old July 10, 2013, 06:59 PM   #30
ColColt
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Quote:
Bet you have more respect for those old timey buffalo hunters now.
The thing is they usually were wearing a lot more that we were Saturday with the hot humid weather. I think the smartest thing for me is to go to a rebarrel in something like 38-55 or 40-70. I'd hate to end up with this beauty on the wall without being able to handle it.

I'm not sure about the light bullets as I don't know just how light a 1:18 twist would stabilize say a 375 gr bullet or a bit over.
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Old July 10, 2013, 07:02 PM   #31
Brian Pfleuger
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You really should try some Trail Boss loads.
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Old July 10, 2013, 07:21 PM   #32
NoSecondBest
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Quote:
I'm not sure about the light bullets as I don't know just how light a 1:18 twist would stabilize say a 375 gr bullet or a bit over.
That twist will stabilize the bullet just fine. I had two Pedersoli rifles with that twist and they shot lights out with everything from 300g and up.
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Old July 10, 2013, 08:17 PM   #33
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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There is such a thing as to much gun. You just experienced yours. When you buy a firearm in hopes to enjoy it. And it actually punishes its shooter shot after shot. It makes no sense in keeping it. Even an occasional black & blue shoulder could lead to other/more serious torso ailments and specifically shoulder damage over time. Playing with bullet weighs may help or may just prolong the agony in your ambition to shoot it without suffering shoulder bruising. {Simple cure-all.} Buy another weapon that's more tolerable too your shooting shoulder.

S/S
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Old July 10, 2013, 09:11 PM   #34
ColColt
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Lot of sense in that post McGee and I have to agree. I'm just hard headed enough to want to still try a remedy as there's countless thousands my age, younger and older who fire these sort of rifles every day without looking like someone took a baseball bat to them and I think I may have found the answer.

In my searches today I ran across a device known as the Lead Sled...some of you know what it is and may have one. If the video on their website is for real then it will make this bruiser feel like a 30-30 instead of a 500 Nitro Express. What do you think?

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/video...ustUSCHn1R8LD3
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Old July 10, 2013, 09:22 PM   #35
Brian Pfleuger
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The lead sled would work fine. I've used one with magnum 12ga slugs.

I still think you should try Trail Boss loads.
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Old July 11, 2013, 05:47 AM   #36
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Funny you should mention a re-barrel... you may find that not as easy as it sounds... I was at my local builder buddy's house yesterday... "hey bud... what's that in the rack on the wall"... "oh a new Sharpes in 50-90, that the owner wanted to rechamber in 50-70, because of excessive recoil"

sound familiar???

this guy ( my buddy ) is a retired tool & die guy, & loves working on this stuff, & has all his life, but the cost of the rifle, coupled with the nice case coloring, & the fact that they must use some type of thread locker on the barrel, he's afraid he'll mess up the case colors if he has to add heat ( he can't get the barrel to budge )... he had intended on shortening the barrel & making the chamber 50-70... since he told the owner he didn't want to mess up the rifle, the owner contacted Sharpes, & they offered to change out the barrel for $600.00... that added to the cost of the original rifle, & coupled with the fact, they didn't sound like they were going to send him his original barrel... so... there may be a 50-90 Sharpes on the market with "low miles"... I wish I could afford it, it's a beautiful rifle, & I'm not too proud to put a decelerator pad on the butt stock, & cover it with a leather butt cuff... but the cost of that rifle is way deeper than my wallet right now

at least it can be said you have good taste in your "too big a gun"
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Old July 11, 2013, 07:19 AM   #37
Moloch
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Holy smokes!

Your shoulder shouldn't look that bad even after firing a hundred rounds through an elephant gun! Let someone watch you while shooting, I'm 100% sure you're doing something wrong, maybe you get space between the butt plate and the shoulder just before pulling the trigger, there is definitely something wrong with your shooting stance.

Next time try to grab the forearm stock of your sharps with your supporting hand and push forward, when shooting from the bench don't lean into the gun too much, allow your body to move backwards so you can absorb the recoil. If you lean forward too much the recoil will go straight through your body and that leads to bruised shoulders.

For the record, I've fired many .45-70 smokeless loads with a 530 grain postell bullet at about 1500 fp/s off the bench through a heavy single shot rifle, the gun really pushes but I've never found the recoil to be unpleasant. I also never got a bruised shoulder.
(Though the gun makes me cry when I try to shoot it from prone position with the metal butt plate resting on my collar bone )

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Old July 11, 2013, 07:34 AM   #38
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I have multiple "45s" in various cartridge sizes all the way up to a 458Winnie (which will give me a headache off the bench from headsnap with a dozen rounds of 500 grainers). But I am otherwise not sensitive to recoil per se in any other shooting position.

That said, my 45-90 Rolling block (525gr Paul Jones/85gr Swiss 1½)chewed up my shoulder during 55 rounds of a rambash exactly as shown by ColtColt's pic above. Turns out that I was wearing a coat liner whose company logo was embroidered exactly at that spot, and whose rough underside lay up precisely between shoulder and buttstock -- bad juju.

Similarly the top of the crescent-shaped steel buttplate on my Great Plains 54 will "hurt" pretty good -- again when snuggled up to it in bench mode.

One option that works really well in the latter case is shoulder recoil pad as shown below:

(Cabelas -- in particular)

I recommend it highly.

Last edited by mehavey; July 11, 2013 at 08:49 AM.
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Old July 11, 2013, 09:51 AM   #39
ColColt
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I was hunched over the bench like I was shooting a .222 Remington with my front stand elevated about eight inches and a small shot bag, with the ears, holding the stock I reached around with my left hand to hold and squeeze the rear bag to vary the elevation from the rear I needed and right hand on pistol grip/trigger. I won't say there wasn't a slight gap between butt plate and my shoulder...I just don't know. I do know the heel of the rifle was very close to the concrete bench I was shooting from...maybe an inch or so. Perhaps everything, including front and rear bags should have been higher to keep me from having to hunch over as much as I did.

I haven't shot rifles in about 20 years...mostly pistols/revolvers and could have forgotten some general rules but as I said, i don't think I shot this one from the bench any different than I did with smaller calibers.

The rifle has a tremendous drop at heel and toes, just like the original but the stock is thin at about 1 1/2" at it's widest point and curved steel. Had it been one with a shotgun stock I sort of doubt it would have been as punishing.

Quote:
That said, my 45-90 Rolling block (525gr Paul Jones/85gr Swiss 1½)chewed up my shoulder during 55 rounds of a rambash exactly as shown by ColtColt's pic above.
That Rolling Block has a drop at heel as bad as the Sharps I can't imagine 85 gr of Swiss as the 77 gr of 2F was bad enough. I had a Navy Arms Rolling Block Carbine, half round/half octagon barrel back in the 70's in 45-70-crescent shaped brass butt plate. It too was a real kicker at just 6 1/2 pounds.

I watched a guy on YouTube firing a 45-90 from prone! That's got to be worse than from the bench and he wasn't in pain or flinching so, I have to wonder if he was shooting a lighter bullet with less powder as it didn't seem to recoil like mine did.

Shiloh will cost me a small mint to rebarrel, I'm sure but I don't have many options and I'm considering that despite the cost. I don't want a wall hanger. I still think in part it's the shape of the butt plate that caused the pain. Bruises I can live with but I'm not into pain at all. This is what the butt plate looks like for those that haven't seen this style.



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Old July 11, 2013, 03:11 PM   #40
Magnum Wheel Man
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gorgeous rifle... be ashamed to sell it or relegate it to a wall hanger ( though it sure is pretty ) I think I'd set it up with some Trailboss & your heavy bullets, & if that doesn't help, try a lighter bullet & load...

BTW... that one has much prettier wood that the 50-90 I was looking at last night...
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Old July 11, 2013, 03:28 PM   #41
ColColt
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Quote:
BTW... that one has much prettier wood that the 50-90 I was looking at last night...
It would take two of the worlds most renown wrestlers to get me to fire that one.!!

I'm really wanting to stay with black powder. I have several pounds of Goex 2F, Swiss 2F, 1 1/2, and a pound of KIK 2F so, you can see why. Getting smokless powder is nearly impossible these days. I looked all over and curry combed the countryside till I finally found a pound or two of H4198 for my 38-55 and paid a premium for it. Use to you could get that by IMR for a little less than $5 per pound.

I'm going to try a lighter bullet and lower the charge a bit to see if that helps but it'll take another week or two till my shoulder can stand things again. By then my LimbSaver should be here.
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Old July 11, 2013, 03:37 PM   #42
Magnum Wheel Man
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at least with a thick "slip on" type recoil pad, it'll take the sharp edges off that but plate...
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Old July 11, 2013, 03:54 PM   #43
mehavey
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Quote:
"Shiloh will cost me a small mint to rebarrel, [but] I don't have many options and
I'm considering that despite the cost...."
DON'T !!!!

Just slip on a shoulder recoil pad as suggested above.
It's a night & day difference
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Old July 11, 2013, 04:23 PM   #44
TATER
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ColColt,
Mr. Hawg Hagen mentioned it, But, I think it was kinda brushed over. If you can find a SecondHand/Thrift store, Buy a couple of
old wool Felt hats. Punch a bunch of appropriate size disks to take up the airspace and reduce that load!! A buddy of mine shoots 45-120
And I tell ya, He don't shoot full Tilt loads.
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Old July 11, 2013, 05:34 PM   #45
Hunter Customs
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ColColt,

I think you have touched on couple of things that may be causing your recoil problem and the blood marking the rifle is giving you.

One for sure is the size and cut of the stock.
Even though you are shooting a 12 pound rifle the stock is thin and not making a large foot print, so the recoil is being received in smaller condensed area instead of being dispersed over a wider area of your shoulder.

I was going to recommend a lead sled shooting rest to you if you can use it with out skinning up that beautiful rifle.
I have a friend that uses one when shooting his Remington Ultra Mag from a bench, he swears by how great it is.

The other thing is the shooting position you described, (hunched over the gun).
I kind of think that maybe if you were in a little more straight up sitting position your body would not be as rigid thus letting you move more with the recoil, that may help some.

That being said at one time I collected old double barrel shotguns, had one in my collection that was a 16 gauge; that gun kicked like the proverbial mule.
I shot one shell through each barrel, besides it hurting like heck my shoulder was blood marked like I had shot several boxes of shells, never shot that gun again.

I talked with an old gunsmith about it, he thought the stock was cut wrong.
However as beautiful as the wood is in your rifle I would consider other alternatives before I would cut that stock.
As others have suggested, different (lighter) loads may be your best choice.

Best Regards
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Old July 11, 2013, 06:25 PM   #46
ColColt
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I'm hoping to kill two birds with one stone. I've not only ordered the LimbSaver pad but also ordered a Lead Sled Plus along with two 25# bags of shot to fit inside it. If that all doesn't tame the recoil and put some more enjoyment back into shooting this thing I don't know what will.

There is some credence to my positioning myself too low on the bench. It's been many moons since I've shot from the bench and last time was a rifle nothing like this one and I had zero bruises or knots on my shoulder. The Sharps does have a very thin butt by todays standards and it's material and shape is not shoulder friendly. I'm going to beat this thing and try to get back and enjoy it. I've never loaded 20-25 rounds for any weapon I've ever had and came back home with half of them until now. That's about to cease. I just hope the Lead Sled lives up to the hype and videos I've seen. It has to be better that what I have, however.
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Old July 11, 2013, 07:53 PM   #47
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If I were in your situation, that sucker would be goin' down the road and I'd be in the market for something like a 38/55 that would be fun to shoot. I don't care how beautiful that rifle is, if it hurt me like that I wouldn't be considering it fun.
I wouldn't recommend having it rebarreled by Shiloh either, as I wasn't too happy when I did that. I had a really heavy barrel and wanted a lighter and shorter one. They quote 600 bucks, but it will cost you a lot more by the time they are done. I had to call them back afterward and pay seperate shipping to get my old barrel and forearm back...they admitted that they probably had it in the back somewhere...but "most customers don't want their old barrels back". I finally got it and sold the barrel and forearm on Gunbroker for 400 bucks. I suspect they have a market for used barrels.
I ended up paying over 200 bucks just in shipping with Shiloh before it was all over.
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Old July 11, 2013, 10:12 PM   #48
reynolds357
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I have shot some of the heaviest recoiling rifles in the world, and you are just a wimp. Just kidding brother. I have a .45-70 trap door Springfield with a steel but plate that is very similar to your rifle. I have a .458 win mag with a good recoil pad. That trapdoor feels 15X worse on my shoulder than the .458 Win mag. The steel butt plates on these type rifles, are in my opinion, pure torture. Anyone who even suggests these rifles are not painful, is more of a man than I am.
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Old July 12, 2013, 07:32 AM   #49
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Another thought... The "rifle" or crescent buttstock was, I was taught years ago, supposed to be fired between the ball of the shoulder and the biceps, resting as it were against the upper arm, rather than on the torso in "the pocket" formed by the ball of the shoulder and under the clavicle.

I was taught it was a rifle designed to be shot from a standing position with the crescent out on the upper arm.

You are free to discard this idea, as I have no independent knowledge, other than instruction received as a callow youth... too many years ago.
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Old July 12, 2013, 07:58 AM   #50
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Quote:
Another thought... The "rifle" or crescent buttstock was, I was taught years ago, supposed to be fired between the ball of the shoulder and the biceps, resting as it were against the upper arm, rather than on the torso in "the pocket" formed by the ball of the shoulder and under the clavicle.
I've heard the same thing stubbicatt, but I could never make myself try it.
I had a friend that had a 50/110, he was the one that told me that.
I can't imagine him shooting the rifle that way, he was not a very big fella.

Best Regards
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