The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 10, 2013, 02:56 AM   #1
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 2,431
A "firearms" fork in the road. And no GPS!!

I like my G19. It does everything I need and expect from a semi auto by the bucket load.

I shoot it as well as my Ruger MkIII and I have all the spares I could want for it. I have 4 mags for competitions and practice.
I have mag holders and a Blackhawk holster. I even have night sights and a Galco IWB soft-tuk, both of which are rare as unicorn manure here.

Glock is a dealer supported brand here. That is a rare thing, and only CZ can really say the same.

The G19 is arguably one of the best CCW compacts in terms of weight, size, capacity, reliability and accuracy.

It is tough and should last my shooting career at my present rate of fire.

It has a nice trigger with a great reset that puts me right back on the trigger break point.

Mine was bought for a good price and from a knowledgeable owner.

The only points where it does not meet my needs are that the grip angle is a little off for it to point naturally for me. In addition, despite ticking all the boxes I could want from a semi, there is one that remains empty: the "makes my heart skip a beat" box.

I like and respect the G19, but I don't adore it.
I don't get goose-bumps when I hold it and i don't get the urge to open up the safe, just to fondle it.

So which gun does?
Well, as suggested by the picture posted in my other thread about that very gun, the Jericho 941 does give me that love-sick dopamine hit when I look at it.
It feels good in the palm, points very naturally, has a nice trigger, seems solid as a tank and I bet would shoot like a dream. The one pictured in that thread is on sale for about the same as I'd get for my G19, less if I sell some mags seperately

But at what price desire? The Jericho does everything the G19 does, with the exception of light weight.
However, all the real-world advantages for day-to day use, maintenance and upgrade that the G19 can boast, the Jericho lacks:

There are no IMI/IWI/Magnum Research dealers and so mags are like hens teeth (unless there is cross-over with CZs), holsters are an urban legend (unless there is cross-over with CZs), recoil springs and other consumables would akin to the golden fleece in their availability (unless there is cross-over with CZs).

So I am left at this choice of route:
stick to the well-worn track and keep the gun that is the logical choice for all the reasons that the Jericho is not, or take the road less travelled and experience something that could feel so right that the rest doesn't matter.

I know this is a decision I need to make, but if there is any "SSS" (shooter solidarity and sympathy) out there, I'd welcome it!
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Doubt: ...it's the only thing I'm sure of...
-Marsupials: Nature's idea of Concealed-Carry-
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 03:46 AM   #2
JimmyR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2012
Posts: 872
James, I was having a discussion about a similar topic with the owner of my LGS, and he said something that stuck with me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Geary
You can't love a plastic gun. Steel feels.
And you know, I agree with him. I like some of the polymer guns I have used, but they never hang around long. I gravitated towards stel framed guns, becasuse they feel right.

HOWEVER:

I would not reccomend replacing your G19 unless you can find and afford something that can meet all your needs. I'm not as familiar with what is around you, but perhaps something in the Beretta 92/Sig 220 families might be what you are looking for as a good middle ground.

ETA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pond, James Pond
So I am left at this choice of route:
stick to the well-worn track and keep the gun that is the logical choice for all the reasons that the Jericho is not, or take the road less travelled and experience something that could feel so right that the rest doesn't matter.
If the gun doesn't do what you need it to do, then don't get it. A gun is a tool, and should have a clear function before it is purchased (concealed carry, home defense, collection, investment, plinking, etc.) Don't use a screwdriver to drive a nail.
JimmyR is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 04:09 AM   #3
kcub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,789
But there is one plastic gun to rule them all: HK
kcub is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 05:02 AM   #4
alex0535
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 773
I would say just try out the Jericho, hopefully without selling the Glock 19.

You won't have any problem finding another Glock if did decide to sell it if you ever want to go back to it.

Have you considered contacting Israel Weapon Industries about those seemingly irreplaceable consumable parts? I have no idea about the laws over there, but one would think that the parts could be mailed from elsewhere in the world.

I am sure that you could find a holster that would work for it. Wouldn't be as easy as finding a glock holster, but if one can not be bought it can be made.
alex0535 is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 05:28 AM   #5
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 2,431
Quote:
I gravitated towards stel framed guns, becasuse they feel right.
That may be true of me: I don't know. The G19 is the only polymer I own. I will say that every pistol that I've held and thought "oooh! That feels nice" has ben steel, but they have also had nice ergos and seemed to go right on target when I've fired/dry-fired them. So it is steel, is it feel or is it both? I don't know.

Quote:
If the gun doesn't do what you need it to do, then don't get it. A gun is a tool, and should have a clear function before it is purchased (concealed carry, home defense, collection, investment, plinking, etc.) Don't use a screwdriver to drive a nail.
I don't see why the Jericho would not do everything I want of it, including IPSC, (provided I can find extra mags, mag holders, and holster...). They gun itself is not the issue, it is more a case of "keeping it on the road" and getting what I want for it without a ton of hassles. That is the bit where the 941 is more of a question.

I confess I do like Sigs, especially the P229 and 232. The former would fit my needs but the P232 is no good for IPSC: a must. Both are waaaaay too expensive!! Beretta does nothing for me and is also stupidly steep here.

Quote:
I would say just try out the Jericho
I could probably try one, but it's not its performance that I have doubts about, it is getting those spares when they are needed!

Quote:
Have you considered contacting Israel Weapon Industries about those seemingly irreplaceable consumable parts?
Some bits could be bought without any legal ramifications, but recoil springs are not one of them. There is also the issue of whether companies will ship to an individual.
Again, if bits are interchangeable with CZ, being a CZ clone, it might all be OK...
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Doubt: ...it's the only thing I'm sure of...
-Marsupials: Nature's idea of Concealed-Carry-

Last edited by Pond, James Pond; July 10, 2013 at 08:52 AM.
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 09:10 AM   #6
arch308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2011
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 876
Stick with the G19. It seems to do everything you need it to do. I love mine and if limited to one handgun it would be the one.
Wise man say: Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
I agree that variety is the spice of life and understand your desire to try something different. The G19 is so dependable they tend to get boring. But I can't recommend getting rid of the G19 for any reason! I would suggest saving up for the Jerico and keeping the Glock.
arch308 is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 09:36 AM   #7
Gats Italian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2008
Posts: 311
Any day you can rid yourself of a Glock is a good one.
__________________
Leave the gun, take the cannoli.
Gats Italian is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 10:26 AM   #8
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 3,815
Quote:
Any day you can rid yourself of a Glock is a good one.
Ah predictability. I don't even need to read your posts anymore, I just draw from memory.


Let me give the OP some food for thought. I have a hammer. Yup, a regular claw hammer. It's nothing special, I bought it when I got my first apartment. I think it's a Craftsman. It has zero meaning to me. If I lost it, I'd buy another and keep going. What's my point? Well how do you view your guns? To me they're tools. They don't need a "soul" to do their job anymore than my claw hammer needs a soul to do its job. I beat on both of them. They'll both likely last my natural born life, but if they don't both companies would replace them for me at little to no cost for me. Other companies make hammers, but just like Glock in the end they all go bang and shoot people. I have zero problem saying that, I own guns to defend myself from two-legged attackers. They're not a fashion statement. Whatever allows me to be as effective as possible is what I will own. Maybe there's a better hammer out there, just like some people prefer other guns over Glocks (myself included). But a Glock is a perfectly usable tool.

However, I don't believe everyone has to be that way. I've worked with a general contractor a few times who is a really nice guy. For his tools he uses a set of steel tools with iron grips that were owned by his grandfather, passed down to his father, and finally to him. Now he uses them just like they were retail store tools, he doesn't baby them. But they also have some meaning to him. He can use his tools just as well as I can use mine. They don't limit him in any way. However they are heavier than mine.

You have to decide how you want to view your guns: as tools, or something more. You can also, my preferred option, own some guns that mean something more and some that are just tools. But I wouldn't get rid of that Glock. It's a good tool.
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 10:38 AM   #9
Winchester_73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,859
When I see glock bashing, or more specifically, polymer bashing, I can't help but think the revolver guys, ca 1911 bashed the 1911 / government model Colt, because a revolver has history, a revolver functions better, a revolver is simpler, more rugged, a revolver looks better... many probably still prefered SA revolvers in the year 1911, with the same core philosophies at hand.

Anytime there is something "new" or modern, someone who has the "old" will bash it. Before anyone calls me a glock fan boy, I probably own or have owned more walnut and steel than you; more than several of you. I have one glock, a 19, and I appreciate it for what it is. It was never intended to have a look, it was not designed with aesthetics in mind, it was intended to work and be durable. If a gun works very well, and is very durable, I am not super concerned with its looks. I don't place a ton of emphasis on aesthetic qualities. If a gun is a "tool" then it doesn't need to be the best looking "hammer" or "wrench", to be very useable, quality made, and well designed IE a superior "tool." I of course collect guns, so I don't just look at guns only as tools BUT, the glock, as a tool, is one of the best tools that one can get, when you consider what you get for the cost.

Glock achieved their goals with my 19, and their other models. I am happy with it and I trust my life to it.
__________________
Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west
Winchester_73 is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 10:41 AM   #10
Winchester_73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,859
Quote:
You have to decide how you want to view your guns: as tools, or something more. You can also, my preferred option, own some guns that mean something more and some that are just tools. But I wouldn't get rid of that Glock. It's a good tool.
A big +1. That is precisely how I feel. I can use the glock for what its good at, and have the other guns for other reasons. No need to collect glocks, but also no need to avoid using the glock for anything. I know it has drawbacks, but any gun does, and someone can adjust to its traits with practice. I was in the crowd of "I hate shooting it, because I am not accurate with it" and after some practice, and an adj rear sight (I didn't need that, but I bought it) I am confident in my skills with it.
__________________
Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west
Winchester_73 is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 10:45 AM   #11
pilpens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 24, 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,356
If the choice is to replace the Glock 19 with a less supported gun, then NO.
pilpens is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 10:47 AM   #12
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,130
Unless in your part of the world you are limited by the government to how many guns you can own my #1 rule is in order.
If legally possibly, just add a Jericho to your handgun battery.
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 01:41 PM   #13
Zhillsauditor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 19, 2008
Posts: 635
Quote:
mags are like hens teeth
How about buying a CZ 75 Compact (or P-01 or PCR)? They have the support you are looking for, have close to the same ergonomics of the Jericho, use roughly the same design, and have many, many more aftermarket options.
Zhillsauditor is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 03:17 PM   #14
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 2,431
Quote:
How about buying a CZ 75 Compact
I've often thought about a CZ: cheaper to buy, good rep, nice ergo's. However, they just don't make me quiver the way the 941 does. In addition, I've always found the slide serrations to be very narrow and always wondered if, in a crisis situation, I'd be able to get a good grip on that slide.

Quote:
I don't just look at guns only as tools BUT, the glock, as a tool, is one of the best tools that one can get, when you consider what you get for the cost.
Quote:
You have to decide how you want to view your guns: as tools, or something more. You can also, my preferred option, own some guns that mean something more and some that are just tools. But I wouldn't get rid of that Glock. It's a good tool.
Indeed this is the dilemma.
The Glock's worth in this respect, despite the grip angle thing that training could address, is clear to me.
However, I cannot readliy change what is, after all, an emotional reaction.
Amongst my bikes, my TL1000s was a grotesquely impractical bike, but by the Hammer of Thor, I loved every second in the saddle!!
Like my motorbikes, in the guns I have bought there are some that I feel a greater connection to than others, my Redhawk being one of them.

Rationally, I know the Glock is a great choice for all that it already gives me, but I can stare at that picture of the stainless Jericho for half an hour... that is not something easy to ignore when I just know that shooting it would be a blast!!

Quote:
If legally possibly, just add a Jericho to your handgun battery.
Legally possible, financially not so. I have a baby daughter now and whilst I don't plan on selling any of my guns without replacing them, I don't think I can buy any without selling one first.
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Doubt: ...it's the only thing I'm sure of...
-Marsupials: Nature's idea of Concealed-Carry-
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 03:20 PM   #15
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 3,815
Quote:
Legally possible, financially not so. I have a baby daughter now and whilst I don't plan on selling any of my guns without replacing them, I don't think I can buy any without selling one first.
Saving money is always an option.
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 03:35 PM   #16
skeath
Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2013
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 16
Quote:
I've often thought about a CZ: cheaper to buy, good rep, nice ergo's. However, they just don't make me quiver the way the 941 does.
I can't speak to quivering, but I went to my range and rented a CZ P-01, a polymer gun slightly smaller than the full-size 75B. It is a best seller for them now, since it achieved NATO certification, and has been adopted by the Czech National Police. Good gun, well-made, but it didn't grab me. Actually seemed a little snappy to me. The next week I went back and rented a CZ Compact, basically the same gun but all steel. The difference was like night and day. I decided that day I had to have one. However, they are insanely hard to find right now. It took me a month to find one slightly used, but I like it very much. I am now a fan of steel guns. I think they balance recoil better than plastic, of course I don't have to carry one all day, either.

Reading about it won't help; you have to hold it in your hand, and fire it. Then you will know.
__________________
NRA Member
Viet Nam veteran, 25th Infantry, Cu Chi
Please adopt a shelter dog; it will change your life.
skeath is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 03:37 PM   #17
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 3,815
Quote:
I can't speak to quivering, but I went to my range and rented a CZ P-01, a polymer gun slightly smaller than the full-size 75B.
That gun has an aluminum frame, not polymer. So either you're remembering wrong or you're thinking of an entirely different gun, the CZ-P07.
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old July 12, 2013, 11:49 AM   #18
dgludwig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2005
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 5,017
Quote:
or take the road less travelled
Sometimes there are sound reasons why a road is less well traveled but, in this instance at least, I don't think winning a popularity contest is a good enough reason to take the interstate. I agree with the op's raw instinct here: get off the beaten path and try something that stirs the soul instead of simply satisfying a need.
__________________
ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED
...Aristotle
NRA Benefactor Life Member
dgludwig is offline  
Old July 12, 2013, 12:27 PM   #19
jmstr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2001
Posts: 767
Do you have your Glock listed as your 'carry' gun? IIRC, your country has very strict limits of what you can have/carry/etc. Makes me think of my state [California].

Is our Glock listed as your self-defense gun? Can you hit what you want/need with it reliably and regularly?

I am like you: I like the BabyEagle/Jericho941 handgun in the hand MUCH better than ANY Glock I've tried.

However, for the reasons you've already identified, I wouldn't get rid of the Glock for a Baby Eagle/Jericho. If you are out a sear or disconnector, you are out of luck. The Baby Eagle will probably NEVER need more than a few springs. If it does, though, you are out of luck. With the Glock, you are covered.

I WOULD add the Baby Eagle to my 'stable' if I were you and you can afford to own both. And then see how they feel head to head, over time. Especially with the added weight [and stability] of the Baby Eagle/Jericho on the hip.

If you can find them, EAA Witness mags usually work very reliably in the Baby Eagle. CZ not so much.


Now, if the 'fit/feel' in the hand and the psychological lift you get holding it are critical, I'd recommend you check out the CZ line-up.

The Baby Eagle/Jericho is an improved copy of the EAA Witness, which was a copy of the CZ75.

It doesn't look exactly the same [CZ does not have full-length dust cover, for example, on many of their models, and thus baby eagle/Jericho won't fit in CZ75 holster], but it is similar, has the same basic grip angle and heft/weight in the hand.

AND, from what you've said, the CZ would have the support I would recommend for a true 'carry/self-defense' gun in your country.

Back around 2001 when I bought my Baby Eagle I chose that over a CZ for two reasons: the trigger was just a hundredth thinner, so I could control the DA trigger pull on the BE better than the CZ AND I was [at that time] uncomfortable with CZ's 1911-style 'cocked and locked'. Otherwise they felt about the same in my hand.

Now, if I had the money and were not on a Hi Power kick, I'd pick the CZ just because of the support and the fact I AM used to cocked and locked.

At the time I pick the BE because I assumed I'd be storing/carrying the gun with safety on, hammer down on a loaded chamber. The BE was designed to be safe doing that. The CZ75 was not [until the CZ75B came out, but even then the safety was not 'on' unless it was 'cocked and locked'.].


If I were you, I'd wait and get the CZ. Same overall feel as a BE/Jericho, but with support in your neck of the woods.

Until then, keep the Glock. Just my $.02
__________________
Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin. Its the triumphant twang of a bedspring.
jmstr is offline  
Old July 12, 2013, 12:41 PM   #20
Kevin_d77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2012
Location: SW FL
Posts: 899
Magnum Research supports the Baby Eagle pistol.
Kevin_d77 is offline  
Old July 12, 2013, 01:29 PM   #21
jmstr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2001
Posts: 767
Quote:
Magnum Research supports the Baby Eagle pistol.
Yep, in the USA.

He's in the Baltic States that are near Finland, Russia, Belarus and Poland. Export license issues. [I think it is Estonia?] But right over there.

that is why the supply chain issue is more of an issue.
__________________
Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin. Its the triumphant twang of a bedspring.
jmstr is offline  
Old July 12, 2013, 01:58 PM   #22
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 2,431
Quote:
Do you have your Glock listed as your 'carry' gun? IIRC, your country has very strict limits of what you can have/carry/etc. Makes me think of my state [California].

Is our Glock listed as your self-defense gun? Can you hit what you want/need with it reliably and regularly?
Over here there is no CCW requirement. Once I have a firearms licence, CCW is an integral part of the activities I am entitled to.

The only real restrictions are "can you conceal it?" and "if it is a semi, carry it condition 3". So, I can and have carried my Glock concealed, but I tend toward my snub due to the condition 3 clause when I do carry.

So, in a sense, it is not at all strict on what you can carry, but more so about how you carry it.

CZ: I do like CZs.
I was perusing their line-up today and the likes of the SP-01 all-steel appeals a great deal, but the Jericho still gives me the goose-bumps...
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Doubt: ...it's the only thing I'm sure of...
-Marsupials: Nature's idea of Concealed-Carry-
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old July 12, 2013, 03:14 PM   #23
jmstr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2001
Posts: 767
Quote:
and "if it is a semi, carry it condition 3".
Hmm, I forgot about that. This was one of the things I remember reading when you debated the Glock way back in the day.

With that clause, I have to give a word of caution: The Baby Eagle/Jericho and/or CZ will not be quite as easy to do the 'Israeli carry drill' with. That is the term I've been taught for carrying condition 3 and learning to rack the slide AS you draw the weapon, while bringing it up on target.

It will not be impossible, or even REALLY difficult [unless it is winter and you are wearing gloves], but it will be noticeably different and a hint more awkward.

The BE/Jericho has the slide rails on the inside of the frame. Thus the only real 'raised' section to grab for me was the rear sight. I am in southern California [sort of]. It is warm. I don't use gloves with my guns: no need. I can see myself fumbling to rack the slide if I had them on in an emergency. Heck, I could see myself doing that if my hands were sweaty on a warm day too.

CZ has the same design, and thus the same problem.

Glock has slide rails on the outside of the frame. Thus the slide 'hangs over' the frame and is easier to get a quick/good grip on for chambering a round while bringing the handgun up on point.

Again, this is NOT impossible with the BE/Jericho design. The Israeli's used to teach their IDF to do this carry back in the 80s, but it isn't 20 degrees below there very often either. [so I've been told: carry wise, not temp.]

If you haven't considered this, be sure you do.

I personally would still go the CZ route over a Glock due to the pointability, but I'd spend a LOT of time practicing quick draw/chamberings with and without gloves.

Glocks are very good! I have one. I have a LOT of other types, as one Glock meets my desire to be fair. It has NO problems, other than my body thinking the grip angle/thickness are wrong.

Glock corp would say that is an issue with my grey matter: not the gun.
__________________
Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin. Its the triumphant twang of a bedspring.
jmstr is offline  
Old July 12, 2013, 03:52 PM   #24
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 2,431
Quote:
CZ has the same design, and thus the same problem.

...

If you haven't considered this, be sure you do.
I had.
I did not realise that it was because of the slide-in-frame design, but that makes a lot of sense.

However, it was the point I was trying to make in post #14 regarding narrow slide serrations.

In a sense, given I tend toward a snub for carry, this could be less of an issue. I had thought that the BE seemed to have more aggressive serrations in this respect.
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Doubt: ...it's the only thing I'm sure of...
-Marsupials: Nature's idea of Concealed-Carry-
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old July 12, 2013, 04:39 PM   #25
jmstr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2001
Posts: 767
Quote:
I had thought that the BE seemed to have more aggressive serrations in this respect.
You may be right, but I'll tell you... I didn't bother with those serrations. Especially as the rear serrations were where my slide-mounted safety levers were. I found it awkward to grab without the risk of changing the safety lever position too, when I used the serrations. Of course I didn't know half of what I know today at that time. So I knew about nothing, because I today know twice that! Instead, I relied on the tall rear sight for leverage. It was faster and more secure. I had added Meprolight night sights, but I think they were the same height as the original ones.

If carry would be your revolver, then this isn't a concern. It never bothered me at the range's firing line, that's for sure.
__________________
Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin. Its the triumphant twang of a bedspring.
jmstr is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.15477 seconds with 10 queries