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Old July 9, 2013, 10:58 PM   #26
Striker1
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Admin reload...I taught basic pistol courses for many years and still don't understand the purpose / intent of this idea. We only used:

Clearing / unloading
Loading
Reloading
Tactical reload

Regarding reloading vs tac reload, I see advantages to both. I don't favor the idea of ejecting a partially loaded magazine to the ground in the dark where it may go down a street drain, into bushes or whatever but I understand the logic behind the idea of getting the gun topped off as quickly as possible. I also understand the possibility of fumbling the tac reload as I try to juggle to mags in my hand at once. IMO, practicing these procedures gives one the best chance of success...whichever one you choose.
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Old July 10, 2013, 02:07 AM   #27
Jammer Six
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I check the condition of every weapon every time, at the moment I take control of it.

Drop the magazine, look at the number of rounds, re-insert it, press check.

Or empty the magazine well, double check that the magazine is empty, open the chamber and look at it.

Every time I take control of a weapon that has been out of my control.

I don't shoot with folks who don't.
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Old July 11, 2013, 08:18 AM   #28
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I do pretty much what Jammer does.

When I take my carry weapon (walther pps) out of the safe, I drop the mag "yep, 7 rounds in the mag", reinsert the mag, press check "yep, round in the chamber), put the weapon in the holster, take the spare mag out of the safe "yep, 7 rounds", put it in my pocket, lock the safe. Every day, every time.

With the PPS it is not necessary to press check, it has a small hole near the breach that allows you to see the brass cartridge in the chamber. but I usually press check anyway out of habbit. Many of my other guns do not have a loaded chamber indicator.
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Old July 11, 2013, 04:47 PM   #29
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Every time, because I believe in the Bullet Fairy.

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Old July 13, 2013, 09:18 AM   #30
iraiam
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I have never lost track of how many rounds I have in a magazine, does that come with practice and training? I don't know how I do it, but I always seem to know exactly how many rounds I have remaining without having to count, or maybe I count without realizing it.

I only press check on initial load or final unload of the weapon, then I don't do it again until I do another initial load or final unload.
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Old July 13, 2013, 10:45 AM   #31
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Every time, because I believe in the Bullet Fairy.
LOL, I have to get me one of those (LOL.)

I have mixed feels on press checks, the only time I press check is to make sure I have a snap cap in the chamber before dry firing a pistol as well as making sure there is not a loaded round in it. (every time.)

I have had only one AD and that was 45 years ago when cleaning and recharging a Walther PPK. (finger on the trigger problem) Since then I do not keep a loaded round (only a snap cap) in a pistol that goes into the safe and have had no AD's.

When the pistol is taken out it is recharged with a fresh round and a full mag placed in the pistol. All my pistols have loaded chamber indicators so there is never a question of whether it is loaded or not. (and they do work)

Every time you do a press check is an opportunity for an accident to occur. Placing your hand in front of the barrel is not a good thing. That is why I have mixed feelings on doing them when they are not required to make sure the gun is UNLOADED. You are better off to fully rack the slide with the mag out to insure that there is NO round in the chamber and visually check.

If you have mags that are not feeding properly or you are failing to properly seat your mags, then you need to take care of those problems FIRST than to press check your firearm every time.

Stay safe and know your firearm and how it is functioning.
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Old July 13, 2013, 11:54 AM   #32
Striker1
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Every time you do a press check is an opportunity for an accident to occur. Placing your hand in front of the barrel is not a good thing. That is why I have mixed feelings on doing them when they are not required to make sure the gun is UNLOADED. You are better off to fully rack the slide with the mag out to insure that there is NO round in the chamber and visually check.
Why would you put your and in front of the barrel to do a press check? There are safer ways.
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Old July 13, 2013, 01:04 PM   #33
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker1
Quote:
Every time you do a press check is an opportunity for an accident to occur. Placing your hand in front of the barrel is not a good thing. ...
Why would you put your and in front of the barrel to do a press check? There are safer ways.
See post 9, for example.
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Old July 13, 2013, 01:48 PM   #34
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With the weak hand, grasps the slide with the thumb and middle finger on the REAR serrations and the index finger resting on the barrel hood.
Ah, now we are doing PULL and CHECK otherwise it is impossible to see anything with the hand over the ejector port.

Quote:
You are better off to fully rack the slide with the mag out to insure that there is NO round in the chamber and visually check
If you have doubts about if there is a round in your chamber, then I would have doubts about the person caring the weapon! Most people are better than that. Although I can see that happening but that's not really responsible carry. And any time you push or pull the slide, it IS an opportunity for an accident.

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Old July 13, 2013, 03:31 PM   #35
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Administrative Reload

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim243 View Post
Ah, now we are doing PULL and CHECK otherwise it is impossible to see anything with the hand over the ejector port...
If you carefully read the full description of the process you'll notice that when performing this type of press check the presence of a cartridge in the chamber is confirmed by feel, rather than visually. Various forms of this type of tactile press check are now taught at many schools, including Gunsite. So one can do that type of press check in low light and without diverting one's eyes.
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Old July 13, 2013, 05:43 PM   #36
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I don't press check my Glock. I just lean it to the left and I can SEE the brass cartridge case between the barrel and slide (just a small sliver but that is enough.)

And my J .357 I can see the rims quite clearly. And if need be just open the cylinder and check.

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Old July 13, 2013, 07:34 PM   #37
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I have never lost track of how many rounds I have in a magazine, does that come with practice and training? I don't know how I do it, but I always seem to know exactly how many rounds I have remaining without having to count, or maybe I count without realizing it.
You may well find that laser sharp memory disappearing on you when folks are slinging lead your way.
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Old July 13, 2013, 08:59 PM   #38
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I press check my nightstand gun every couple nights. I do not want to have the night when it goes click and the bad guy does his maniacal laugh and says, "you couldn't tell it had no round in the chamber when you picked it up?" Or that may only happen in the movies. I see no reason not to check when it has not been in my possession.
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Old July 13, 2013, 11:56 PM   #39
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You may well find that laser sharp memory disappearing on you when folks are slinging lead your way.
That is very possible, I have been training and practicing for years, but have yet to get in a gun battle..knock wood. I am accustom to high stress but i am sure it's not gun battle level stress.
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Old July 14, 2013, 12:35 AM   #40
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I've wondered about that since 1975. I've always thought that low light is no time to be wondering about the condition of your weapon.
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Old July 14, 2013, 12:44 AM   #41
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer Six
I've wondered about that since 1975. I've always thought that low light is no time to be wondering about the condition of your weapon.
How would you know? What will determine whether it's an appropriate or desirable time to verify the condition of your weapon will be the totality of the circumstances. And if given the totality of the circumstances one concludes that it would be appropriate or desirable to verify the condition of his weapon and at the time, the light is poor, it's certainly convenient to be able to perform that verification by touch.

That is certainly the reason given at Gunsite for teaching a method of tactilely verifying the condition of a weapon. Now if I have a choice of paying attention to my instructors at Gunsite or you, I'll choose paying attention to my instructors at Gunsite.
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Old July 14, 2013, 12:54 AM   #42
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Very interesting discussion. I would like to throw my two cents into the action.

First, as a point of information for those that have never been in a firefight, when that times comes (and we all hope it never does come) you WILL revert to your training and what some term muscle memory.

My former Agency trained for CQB (close quarters combat). Our guns were never out of our possession except when we were in the shower or sound asleep. Our training dictated that when we strapped our gun on after it was off our body, we did a mag check to insure it was properly seated and a press check to make sure a round was in the chamber. It cost us nothing but a second or two of our time.

We also trained for two types of reloads: Emergency and Tactical. The emergency reload was when the slide locked back. The magazine was ejected and a fresh mag was inserted and the slide returned to battery. I always try to count my rounds while firing but in the heat of battle with a 12 or 15 round magazine, it is not always the easiest thing to do. The tactical reload was when some rounds were expended and there was a lull in the action. The partially used magazine is ejected and held while a fully loaded magazine is inserted into the mag well. There is still a round in the chamber and you still have a magazine in your possession that has rounds remaining.

Training was always with two spare magazines. Today, many years later, I carry two full magazines with me when I carry. If my gun is not on my body, it is because I am in the shower or asleep. However, it is close by as is the two spare magazines. And the press check, I do it every time the gun goes back. For me, its just a little peace of mind...a little assurance that everything as is it should be.
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Old July 14, 2013, 08:30 AM   #43
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I press check (or actually open the cylinder to check, I carry a revolver) every time I start the day. Even knowing its loaded because I don't unload it. Just a habit I got into when I first started carrying a long time ago (in the
60s).

Not only that, I've I'm working with a partner that I may have to depend on I check his gun to insure it's loaded.

I learned that the hard way. A long time ago I was a FTO, (field training officer). My rookie and I were on a (drunk) barricaded man w/gun call who had threatened his family with a gun chasing them out of the house. We had to go get him. (We didn't have SWAT teams back then, something we just had to do).

Anyway after sneaking/crawling through the house looking for the guy (which took what seemed like hours) we found he got tired of waiting for us and passed out. No biggie, we got the gun and secured the bad guy without incident.

We had a indoor range next to the briefing room and every night after shift I went and shot a bit. On this night, I took my rookie to the range only to find out he spent the whole night with an empty revolver. I almost had a heart attack. Did a bit of cursing my rookie who had the habit of unloading his service revolver when he got home so his small kids wouldn't get it.

Anyway that was the last night I didn't check my rookies gun prior to shift, and mine. I habit I still follow.

I not in the game any more but I still shoot a lot of different type of matches, I'm forever seeing people getting "clicks" on the first shot after the timer goes off.

A lot of guns out there have "loaded round" indicators, I think they are a good ideas, I have a couple, but for some reason old habits die hard. I usually forget about them and when the command "load and be ready" is given (using a semi) I always press check before I re-holster.

I also give my magazine a good whack when I insert it, I've done it and I've seen it done more then once, where one doesn't get the magazine inserted properly and the slide fails to pick up a round on the first cycle.

Not so much with revolvers, I load and close the cylinder, kind of hard to screw that up.

But for my carry revolver, I always check it when I start my day, maybe again if I start out somewhere.
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Old July 14, 2013, 09:48 AM   #44
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I press check my nightstand gun every few days, I check my revolver also.

I like to stick to very basic stuff, but also train in different tactics and methods. It is kind of interesting training in some new tactics because the coordination is wacky then after a little training the muscle memory picks it up and you have more skills, if ever needed.

Many accts of gun fights I read basic things go wrong and situations turn into scrambling chaotic messes, it seems like a good idea to have training and muscle memory to deal with unknown stuff. Some accts I have seen people get altered senses(tunnel vision, distorted hearing, shock, etc) so you might not always know how many shots you have taken? If you have you guts blown out and shock do you really trust yourself playing with the slide?

you never know.
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Old July 14, 2013, 10:59 AM   #45
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When I was regularly carrying a duty auto, I cleared the gun and replaced the previous day's magazine with a new one. I watched the cartridge go into the chamber. End of exercise.

Never learned any of those catchy terms like "Administrative reload" "Emergency reload" "Tactical reload". The only "condition" phrase I ever learned about a 1911 was "cocked and locked". It was either in that condition or it was disassembled, or ready to be, for cleaning. Never had to suffer the mental game of remembering "Condition I" or "II" or "III". Nor did I have to learn what color my mindset was supposed to be in.


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Old July 14, 2013, 02:33 PM   #46
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Administrative reload: Only when your administrator tells you to do it. Otherwise wait for orders.
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Old July 14, 2013, 05:17 PM   #47
Jammer Six
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For most of my life, (meaning when I wasn't vacationing in Canada) I've been able to check weapons (and lights, locks, the stove, toaster and coffee pot) as the last thing before I turned the lights out. So no, if I had to reach out in pitch darkness and pick up a weapon, I wouldn't check it.

Thinking about it, I might check it if I had the opportunity to turn on a light, but not in the dark.

Hearing a bump in the night in the darkness is not the time to learn a new skill, and tactile press checks are not a skill I've trained, because I've always had this question about it.
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Old July 14, 2013, 08:31 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer Six
...Hearing a bump in the night in the darkness is not the time to learn a new skill...
True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer Six
... tactile press checks are not a skill I've trained...
It is a skill I've trained. So it is a skill available to me should I decide it would be a good idea.
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Old July 14, 2013, 09:06 PM   #49
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My life is easy. Glock, external extractor aka "Loaded Chamber Indicator". It's a bump. No bump, no bang bang.
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Old July 14, 2013, 10:20 PM   #50
Jim243
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^^^^^^ +1

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