The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 2, 2013, 09:24 AM   #26
Punisher_1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 16, 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 136
So if we are to be searched for this event what about the next parade or carnival? Is there a number of people present rule for searching people in a public place. It used to be you had to have something that brought suspicion like time of day or an activity the person was engaged in not just being there.
Punisher_1 is offline  
Old July 2, 2013, 09:55 AM   #27
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher_1
So if we are to be searched for this event what about the next parade or carnival? Is there a number of people present rule for searching people in a public place. It used to be you had to have something that brought suspicion like time of day or an activity the person was engaged in not just being there.
Well, as has been mentioned, the right protected by the Fourth Amendment is to be secure from unreasonable search. So if some governmental authority wants to routinely search the bags, coolers or persons of people attending some public event, if the searches are challenged the governmental authority will have the burden of convincing a judge that the searches are reasonable.

There has been a pretty fair amount of litigation of the question of the reasonableness of searches under various circumstances. So there's a good deal of decisional law about when a search is, or is not, reasonable. And judges will look to that body of decisional law when trying to decide if a particular search requirement is, or is not, reasonable.

I'm not, however, going to do many hours of research and then write what would amount to a law review article discussing in detail the existing legal standards for determining the reasonableness of a search at a public event.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old July 2, 2013, 03:02 PM   #28
Punisher_1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 16, 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 136
With the ever changing circumstances that occur I have no doubt that there will be further case law decisions about a reasonable search. I just wonder how it became so difficult to know your rights since they were written. As you said it could take hours of research to come up with an opinion that could still be argued. It seems it should just be simpler for both the citizen and the LEOs.
Punisher_1 is offline  
Old July 2, 2013, 04:04 PM   #29
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,068
Fourth Amendment law is fertile ground for litigation. It's a very fact intensive area, and the rewards for litigants (who are often inmates) can be tremendous (like freedom instead of incarceration + the inevitable 1983 suit if the inmate prevails).
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old July 5, 2013, 09:51 AM   #30
iraiam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 873
It's becoming increasingly obvious to me that the terrorists have won, when we can't go to a public park without having our personal affects searched, they have won.
__________________
NRA Lifetime Member Since 1999

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials." George Mason
iraiam is offline  
Old July 5, 2013, 04:13 PM   #31
PawPaw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2010
Location: Central Louisiana
Posts: 3,112
Well, first, we have to define "public". Are you sure that the property in question is owned by the city, parish, county, or state?

I'm not familiar with the vagaries of Florida law, but I work within Louisiana Law. I work in a school, which some might consider to be a "public" building, but if a key-holder asks you to leave and you fail to do so, you can be cited for trespassing, or arrested for a variety of charges if you make a scene.

The best place to deal with this is not in the Courts but in the City Council offices. Make it a political issue. Solve it at the administrative level before it becomes an issue in the courts.
__________________
Dennis Dezendorf

http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com
PawPaw is offline  
Old July 7, 2013, 01:21 PM   #32
hermannr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 24, 2011
Posts: 730
Not knowing FL law: here in WA this would be a reason to sue the entity that owns the park, and the LE jurisdiction for a violation Of Article 1 section 7 of the WA State Constitution, as well as the 4A. WA does not allow for any random stops, or road block DUI (etc) checks.

US Supreme Court ruled in Delaware V Prouse that a license check, for no other reason than to check for a license was not legal and a 4A infringement, but (don't have a cite) the US Supreme court also ruled that DUI road block checks were legal because of the overwhelming public safety interest.

My conclusion, whether #4 is legal, or not, would depend on FL state law, and/or whether the defense can convince the judge/jury that there was not an "overwhelming" public safety interest.
hermannr is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07866 seconds with 10 queries