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Old June 30, 2013, 12:46 AM   #26
big al hunter
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that's like saying that Steve Irwin's death wouldn't have made headlines if he was killed by a great white shark instead of a sting ray.
Lets compare it to saying that some fisherman in India that got killed by a stingray should get the same news coverage as Steve Irwin. The more famous figure gets the headline that goes world wide. Every year many fishermen are killed or injured by rays, no headlines on my t.v. about it.

Grizzly = Irwin
Black bear =some fisherman
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Old June 30, 2013, 08:33 AM   #27
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"do you have a source for this information? in the last 2-3 years when I actually started paying attention to such things I have run across about a half dozen bear mauling stories and all involved grizzlies."

He said deaths, not just maulings.

I've seen that claim, too, and I'm guessing it's based on the relative ranges of both bear types, and the fact that black bears are FAR more likely to come into contact with humans.

Black bear have also great expanded their ranges over the past 50 years as they've moved back into areas where they were once forced out. My Mother lives in Lewistown, Pennsylvania, a small semi-rural community of about 8,000. Not huge, but not miles off the beaten path, either, and this year she's had a bear regularly rummaging through her garden.

I live in Fairfax County, Virginia, right outside of Washington, DC, a FAR more densely populated and urban area... and we're now seeing bear.

Here's a list of bear fatalities in North America from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._North_America

If it's in Wikipedia, you know it has to be true!
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Old June 30, 2013, 09:13 AM   #28
Todd1700
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In Russia, they call bear hunters who use Mosin Nagants "dearly departed".
Really? Never heard that. God help us if a 203 grain bullet driven at near 30-06 velocities has stopped killing bears. Must be some new mutated strain of bear roaming the woods these days.
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Old June 30, 2013, 09:39 AM   #29
big al hunter
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Ok, I found soma statistics for North America. http://www.statisticbrain.com/bear-attack-statistics/ This list is only recent years and shows only 1 more death for black bear than grizzly. However the list includes Canada which has a larger area with grizzly bear present. The statistics I had heard before were in the United States only. I will continue searching.
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Old June 30, 2013, 12:23 PM   #30
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I found some numbers but I'm not sure where they came from. This article on http://www.backpacker.com/blogs/1485 says that at the time of writing thus far in the 2000's there have been 17 fatal black bear attacks and 10 grizzly.

Also you are 3 times more likely to be killed by lightning than by A bear.
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Old June 30, 2013, 12:32 PM   #31
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because with our society, you are more likely to be walking around on wet concrete during a thunderstorm than you are to be hiking where there is no internet, cell service, or AC.
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Old June 30, 2013, 01:57 PM   #32
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Black bear are more of a annoying nuisance than dangerous. Don't want them in close. Don't give them a reason to come explore.
More times than not their just a simple opportunist looking for a free easy meal. Even a simple thing as a bird feeder will garner their attention. Best thing for bears to keep them at distance, Get yourself a dog. Not one that cuttle's with you in the house at night. No Sir!! A dog that prefers or is trained to live outside your home 9-12 months of the year. A good trusting and obeying watch dog that stays on your porch and in your yard instead of roaming when left by himself. He doesn't have to be Big. Just well trained & smart.
By the way if a bear comes after you. You'd had better have something in your hand more efficient than a can of bear spray no doubt. Or even that ruskey rifle you have. Think 12 ga. with 1 oz. slugs. Preferably a pump action. Take it's magazine plug out first thing and fill it up with slugs. There now. That's my advice for an all purpose bear stopper and mind set changer. "Be it human or beast."

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Old June 30, 2013, 02:31 PM   #33
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More likely to be hit by lightning if you are carrying a lightning rod (Rifle). I dunno, around here the 30-30 and .35 REM are the bear hunting guns of choice. As stated in a previous thread, "Bears get big in Pa". The most aggressive bears seem to be in the State Parks around here, and they got that way because of people. Bears are not overly smart and get into trouble just like kids. The bears over in Lehighton walked through because it was hot and they were going to the river. During a real heat wave they(Bears) will be reported in backyard pools. That has happened numerous times around here, but nobody opened fire on them. Usually they are gone before the Game Warden shows up. I would worry more about Pit Bulls than some nosey bear. I think we have had almost a half dozen local Pit Bull attacks this year already.
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Old June 30, 2013, 05:51 PM   #34
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I can think of many guns I would have in grizzly country for protection against said bears. A Mosin Nagant is not one of these guns.

Sure it has adequate punch to kill a bear, but do you think you are fast enough to get off more than one round should the first one miss in the precious seconds you have between the time the bear starts running and the time the bear is on top of you?

I would feel safer with any modern bolt action in adequate caliber than I would with a Mosin, but not safe enough to use a bolt action for bear defense. Maybe bear hunting, but not defense.

If I was to be moving to bear country, the first guns I would pick up would be a .44 magnum revolver and 12 gauge semi automatic shotgun that I could load with slugs, and not leave home without one or the other, depending on where I would be going maybe both.

For the black bears around here, I believe the 30-30 or .35 Remington would do a number on them.
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Old June 30, 2013, 06:00 PM   #35
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alex, this thread does not regard grizzlies and does not regard hiking, this is a coming home to find a black bear sitting on your sofa kind of discussion.

OP, just a word of warning. any thread with the words 'Bear' and 'Defense' in the title often have a lot of similarities.

1. at least a quarter of the posts detail information pertinent to grizzlies even if the title specifies black bears.

2. there will be some yahoo that insists that they wouldn't take any rifle smaller than 338 lapua or handgun smaller than 500 S&W.

3. some one will mention that one of the most popular rounds for polar bear hunting is a 223 so they will naturally recommend an AR15.

4. someone will depict all of the evil qualities of bears as if they were manufactured by Cyberdyne Industries and wear Kevlar.
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Old July 1, 2013, 08:47 AM   #36
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I think the black bears that you run onto in parks aren't necessarily aggressive toward people, they are just comfortable seeing a lot of people and dismiss them as long as people give them some room. The feeding is the problem and that brings bears in close to people. But as the black bear population increases, there will be more and more bear encounters as the bears are competing for a place to live and eat.

What gun is a matter of personal preference. If you like Mosins or that is all you can afford, go for it. I prefer something more traditional. Have never really been a fan of most milsurps in general. But that is just me. Maybe next year I'll all of a sudden get interested in milsurps.
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Old July 1, 2013, 09:15 AM   #37
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That is a good statement "-as long as people give them some room". It pretty much covers it all.
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Old July 1, 2013, 11:59 AM   #38
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Situational awareness. Don't startle or don't get between them and their cubs. Make plenty of noise so they know you're there. Avoidance is better than having to resort to bear spray or boolits.

We've bear in my part of Colorado and the State has a habit of dumping nuisance bears in our area too. Every now and then I see one of those state trucks with an empty bear trap driving away from our area. Thanks Colorado!
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Old July 1, 2013, 02:59 PM   #39
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A Mosin loaded with softpoints, has muzzle energys similar to a 30-06, but do you really want to depend on a Mosin to put down a bear if the need arises?

First of all, the M91-30 is a bit too long to make a good brush or car gun. The longer length of the M91-30, might make it easier for a charging bear to swat the rifle away with one of it's paws; but he might be in for a suprise if the bayonet was attached. You could use a shorter M-44, but the safety's on both guns are a bit hard to manipulate.

Second...most ammunition companies, do not make cartridges that are loaded with premium bullets for the 7.62X54, such a the Barnes, Accubond, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, Nosler Partition, etc, etc; which I would use for bear. You can probably handload them, but I would stick with a much more modern rifle or pistol against bears; that are loaded with premium bullets.
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Old July 1, 2013, 10:50 PM   #40
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People use the 30/30 for bears and have for along time. You can go buy 7.62x54R soft points at any sporting goods store. It is a very powerful round. More than a 30./30 right around a .308 or 30-06. You can get a carbine mosin if the barrel length is too long for you. It is a cheap, powerful gun. If you do your part, it will do its.
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Old July 1, 2013, 11:22 PM   #41
tahunua001
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Second...most ammunition companies, do not make cartridges that are loaded with premium bullets for the 7.62X54, such a the Barnes, Accubond, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, Nosler Partition, etc, etc; which I would use for bear. You can probably handload them, but I would stick with a much more modern rifle or pistol against bears; that are loaded with premium bullets.
in a 30 cal at close range premium bullet selection is not very critical. I don't put much stock in premium bonded bullets anymore anyway. I used accubonds to take my black bear. at 100 yards the bullet was only traveling about 2,000 FPS when the recommended minimum for accubonds is 1800 before they no longer expand. the bullet split in half and both halves immediately deflected to 90 degree angles from impact. this is a bullet that is supposed to have 'superior weight retention and exceptional expansion'. I'd just as soon just go with a decent soft point which is not that hard to get for a 7.62x54R.

you do bring up a good point, if the bear's in the living room then you probably do not want to be swinging a gun as long as a 91/30 around the house trying to get it to leave.
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Old July 1, 2013, 11:41 PM   #42
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7.62x54R = Commie Aught Six.

Event the cheapest brass cased soft point loading out there (150gr Prvi PPU) gives me 2800 f/sec out my 91/30 ...... if you can put that where it needs to go, then it will kill any bear in the lower 48 DRT, and nigh snything else in short order. There are no doubt loadings with heavier and better constructed bullets ........ but if you put 2500+ ft/lbs of energy into vital tissues and organs .... that is going to put stop to things ....................

,,,,not to mention that you have the bayonet to keep the critters off you .......
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Old July 2, 2013, 02:13 AM   #43
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People use the 30/30 for bears and have for along time. You can go buy 7.62x54R soft points at any sporting goods store. It is a very powerful round. More than a 30./30 right around a .308 or 30-06. You can get a carbine mosin if the barrel length is too long for you. It is a cheap, powerful gun. If you do your part, it will do its.
Agreed. As I said before, God help us if bullets in the 180 to 203 grain range travelling at near 30/06 velocities have stopped killing bears. As for the gun itself, no a Mosin Nagant is typically not going to be a tack driver but at any range that a bear is a legitimate threat it's more than accurate enough. The bolt action on a Mosin Nagant is as easily worked as most bolt actions out there and I've never heard anyone claim that a bolt action was unacceptable for bear protection.

There isn't a bear on earth that can take a hit behind the shoulder from a 180 or 203 grain soft point out of a Mosin Nagant and live. As for stopping a charge? Well survival in that situation is going to depend waaaaay more on your ability to shoot accurately under extreme duress than on what caliber gun you are holding.
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Old July 2, 2013, 07:28 AM   #44
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Onced moved to your new location OP. You should give that states LE a phone call and see if there are or not restrictions for its residence concerning bear sightings. You might be limited to less than lethal resolve for one seen on your door step waiting for his/her share of the bacon or in your garage licking the bugs off your vehicles grille._
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Old July 4, 2013, 09:10 AM   #45
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A Mosin Nagant would be fine if the bear was trying to get into your house and you have time to prepare. The biggest problem is that Mosins are slow, they are heavy and long and aren't very quick to maneuver. They also have an extremely clunky safety. As for power they definitely have the power to stop a black bear and probably anything else that's trying to eat you.
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Old July 5, 2013, 11:19 PM   #46
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haha. god the mosin safety. even the poor soviet soldier never used no safety on it. sure you can use it, but it can be modified to be more suitable.
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Old July 12, 2013, 04:18 AM   #47
dylanf55
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i would think that a mosin would stop a bear just fine i droped a mature elk this last year with mine this last year at 150 yds with 1 shot it just about shot placement.
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Old July 13, 2013, 12:18 PM   #48
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Ok let me get this straight:

1. The bear is raiding your shed/garbage
2. It is more than likely a black bear
3. You are more than likely in you home/safer location

Why in the heck would any of you guys recommend a pistol over a .308/.30-06 equivalent round in the 7.62x54? My M44 is powerful and plenty accurate enough to dispatch any troublesome bear. It is all in the shooter. It is best you shoot the largest caliber you can shoot accurately.

Recommending a pistol in anything but a hiking situation seems ludicrous to me.
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Old July 14, 2013, 12:39 PM   #49
Todd1700
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Recommending a pistol in anything but a hiking situation seems ludicrous to me.
I know. I just laugh and shake my head when I see people denounce a full blown rifle caliber like 7.62x54R as woefully inadequate for bear protection and then turn around and recommend a 44 magnum handgun. Heck a 30-30 is a monster of power compared to a 44 magnum handgun. LOL!
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Old July 14, 2013, 01:00 PM   #50
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it has nothing to do with the calibers being inadequate. it has to do with the speed at which you can bring your muzzle to bear(no pun intended) on your target and how fast/smoothly you can line up a follow up shot. if you're swinging a mosin nagant with a 30 inch barrel around you'll notice that it takes a lot longer than a revolver with an 8 inch barrel, especially if it's in the house where you need to get around furniture and corners. also, a majority(not all but a lot) have stiff bolts, I believe the term, open with a 2x4 was coined for these particular rifles. even if we were comparing something like a ruger american in 308, I would recommend the american because of the shorter barrel, and smoother bolt operation, even if it only holds 4 rounds instead of 5. if the question regarded a M38, 44 or 53 I would have less qualms about recommending it but since the OP is talking about a full length 91/30 it is not such an easy thing to recommend.
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