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Old July 2, 2013, 07:41 AM   #1
Dixie Gunsmithing
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More about our schools.

The VP of the National Education Association, Lily Eskelsen Garcia, said, before 3000 others, that she prophesied that the NRA and 2nd Amendment defenders were "going to hell". They have someone like this involved in our school system?

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/ar...g-to-hell.aspx
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Old July 2, 2013, 07:50 AM   #2
Hunter Customs
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I've got news for her, I've been there.

There's a lot of them like her in our school system.

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Old July 2, 2013, 08:46 AM   #3
SgtLumpy
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Both sides of the gun argument have plenty of kooks. It's not exclusive to the anti-gun group.


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Old July 2, 2013, 09:25 AM   #4
Dashunde
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True. But our kooks are grounded in the basic rational fact that the tool (gun) nor the right to own them is the problem.
Humans are the problem and we manage to kill ourselves, each other and our children every day with all kinds of other items, not just guns.

Their kooks believe that because some of us humans are unstable (or criminal) that none of us should have guns or gun rights.
That, and many of their kooks just inexplicably hate guns.

Fortunately for us, so far, very few of our elected officials buy into their nonsense about more gun laws equaling safer schools.
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Old July 2, 2013, 09:37 AM   #5
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While I realize that the notice came from the NRA-ILA, this thread has great potential to veer from "firearms-related" to "general public education policy" veryu quickly. So far, so good, but I'll issue this advisory note: Let's try to stay on the firearms track, lest one of us mods be forced to close the thread.
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Old July 2, 2013, 09:47 AM   #6
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The only real alternative here is to communicate quality pro second amendment information directly to young people. The best option is via social media and make sure we focus on the aspects that are important to them.
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Old July 2, 2013, 10:16 AM   #7
Skans
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Quote:
Both sides of the gun argument have plenty of kooks. It's not exclusive to the anti-gun group.
I wholeheartedly disagree. I frequently listen to gun owners and 2nd Amendment advocates here, at other forums, at gun shows, listen to and read NRA bylaws, documents speeches and writings. Rarely if ever have I hear 2nd Amendment supporters say anything even closely comparable to the rhetoric coming from the antis, like the NEA VP saying NRA and 2nd Amendment voters are "going to hell".

Kooks don't run the NRA, GOA or any other 2nd Amendment advocacy group I know of. The person who said we are going to hell for supporting the 2nd Amendment is the VP of NEA - the National Education Association. The NEA is the largest labor union in the United States. Please, let's not pretend what the antis are even in the same league as pro 2nd Amendment advocacy groups when it comes to kooks and leaders making asinine, ignorant, and hateful statements.

"Kooks" abuse their power by having children arrested and suspended from school for simply wearing an NRA shirt. If you think the leaders of the NRA or any other gun advocacy group are kooks, please cite one example where they have abused their power to have people arrested or publicly banished other political advocacy groups to hell.

Last edited by Skans; July 2, 2013 at 10:25 AM.
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Old July 2, 2013, 10:28 AM   #8
gaseousclay
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Quote:
I wholeheartedly disagree. I frequently listen to gun owners and 2nd Amendment advocates here, at other forums, at gun shows, listen to and read NRA bylaws, documents speeches and writings. Rarely if ever have I hear 2nd Amendment supporters say anything even closely comparable to the rhetoric coming from the antis, like the NEA VP saying NRA and 2nd Amendment voters are "going to hell".

Most anti groups are made up of kooks, liars, or those who are simply blissfully ignorant. Can you really say the same thing of most NRA life members, or other groups who support the 2nd Amendment? Kooks don't run the NRA, GOA or any other 2nd Amendment advocacy group I know of. The person who said we are going to hell for supporting the 2nd Amendment is the VP of NEA - the National Education Association. The NEA is the largest labor union in the United States. Please, let's not pretend what the antis are even in the same league as pro 2nd Amendment advocacy groups when it comes to kooks and leaders making asinine, ignorant, and hateful statements.

"Kooks" abuse their power by having children arrested and suspended from school for simply wearing an NRA shirt. If you think the leaders of the NRA or any other gun advocacy group are kooks, please cite one example where they have abused their power to have people arrested or publicly banished other political advocacy groups to hell.
c'mon. to suggest that there are no kooks in the NRA is being disingenuous. I could cite a huge litany of rants about Ted Nugent but I won't go there. there are kooks in every group on the planet.
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Old July 2, 2013, 12:13 PM   #9
Skans
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c'mon. to suggest that there are no kooks in the NRA is being disingenuous.
What I'm saying is that the leadership of the NRA does not go out and make hateful, kook statements. And, most of the people who represent the NRA, as well as there members are not kooks. Furthermore, the statements made by NRA spokespersons, as well as by many 2nd Amendment (non-NRA) supporters are usually supported, educated, informed, and rational.

Have you ever heard anyone associated with the NRA say "I'm not a minister, but every government paid teacher is going to Hell"? That is the equivalent of what the VP of the NEA said about the NRA and 2nd Amendment supporters.

Also, if you are going to use Ted Nugent as an example of an NRA "Kook" - how about citing something "kooky" he has said about teachers, anti-gun groups or the NEA. I've listened to Ted Nugent, and he is usually fairly well spoken, and on point. Also, Ted Nugent making an impassioned campaign jab at a presidential candidate is not at all comparable to the VP of the NEA condeming ALL NRA members and 2nd Amendment supporters to Hell. Nor is it comparable to the thuggery of a school principal incarcerating a boy for wearing an NRA shirt. That's real, and that's beyond crazy!

And one more thing: One Kook in a group of 1,000,000 is not the same as 30 Kooks in a group of 100. The shear number of crazy, kooky, uninformed, asinine statements coming from various anti groups far outweighs a few odd-ball comments from the NRA or other 2nd Amendment groups.
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Old July 2, 2013, 12:16 PM   #10
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More about our schools.

Here is a case to point out. For over 32 years I taught school and most of my teaching years were in a High School. In the 70's, 80's and most of the 90's many teachers including myself and some students(of legal hunting age) hunted after school during hunting season. We brought our rifles and revolvers with us in our cars and trucks. Our metal shop teacher(he was a gunsmith) and wood shop teachers allowed students to bring their rifles into the shops to fix or work on. Students projects included making knives and even making small black powder canons! We never had a problem. No shootings, mass murders, knife fights- students were taught RESPONSIBILITY and SAFETY. Since the mass murders started in Colorado, and in the rush to make schools GUN FREE, the new laws have had the opposite effect! Now, guns are evil, pictures of guns are evil, pointing your finger like a gun is evil, making a piece of paper look like a gun is evil. School mass murders have skyrocketed! The sign outside the schools that say "GUN FREE ZONE" have been the go ahead to criminals and mentally challenged people to commit mass murders because they know, for the most part, the schools have been made defenseless. The criminals know they will be able to kill at will because the new laws have taken away the rights of everyone to defend themselves. I am not saying everyone should be armed, but simply taking away the rights or privileges of law abiding people does nothing to stop criminals. In fact, it many times has the opposite effect! How can anyone be so blind?
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Old July 2, 2013, 12:48 PM   #11
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Why is it that the same NRA bashers keep engaging in hyperbole, yet still refuse to cite any specific facts, statements, or arguments?

The NEA VP does not surprise me in this regard. Some of our TFL members, sadly, also do not surprise me - this is their standard pattern.

(I am just waiting for somebody to jump in with Charlton Heston's speech inBowling for Columbine, so one of our more informed members can hit them with the actual transcript of the speech, as opposed to the hatchet job of editing done by Michael Moore.)
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Old July 2, 2013, 01:21 PM   #12
Dixie Gunsmithing
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KBP,

When I was just starting to drive, at 16, and started to drive to school in a used Ford Courier truck, I had a shotgun and .22 rifle mounted in the rear window, and most of the time, a dog box in the back. Nobody ever said anything. I also remember a friend of mine, that was about two years younger, who made a black powder cannon, in shop, just as you're speaking of. I don't know how many wood gun racks were made in shop either. Heck, the principals son, who I was friends with, used to hunt with me. Plus, the Boy Scouts were teaching marksmanship courses, and I believe the Cubbies too. From this, I think we should try to educate our children and other family members, about firearms, before they hear stuff like was said.

My gripe about what was reported, is the ignorance of those who say things like she did, and have most likely never held a gun in their life. However, they claim to know us, and want to dictate to everyone how the US should be ran. If it hadn't been worded as her opinion, she could have been sued over that, and rightly so. Now, though, its best to out her, for what she said, which is why I posted this, this morning.
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Old July 2, 2013, 11:02 PM   #13
DaleA
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I hesitated to post this link because I don't really want to give the anti-gun folk more publicity (I think that is what they want) but Lily Garcia is already a 'celebrity' being vice-president of the NEA so if you want to find more of her misguided thinking you can find it here:

http://lilysblackboard.org/2013/06/any-gun-to-anyone/

and the home page is here:

http://lilysblackboard.org/

I am a little puzzled that they included a long and pro-gun comment.

PS - I bet this is the ONLY mention of 'God', 'Heaven' or 'Hell' that the NEA would tolerate at one of their meetings.
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Old July 3, 2013, 12:01 AM   #14
egor20
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I think Lily Eskelsen Garcia, would have a heart attack if she could "Time Warp" back to when I was in high school. Half the guys and a goodly amount of the girls either had a deer rifle or shotgun in their trucks in the school parking lot. The first day of deer season was more or less a day off, very few of the students or staff ever showed up. Interestingly though only ever saw 3 fights in school, all with fists.
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Old July 3, 2013, 06:44 PM   #15
Dashunde
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I think we should give X-acto blades to Lily Esckelsen Garcia and Heidi Yewman and toss them in a cage together with a gun strapped to the wall... lets see which one goes for the gun first?
They both have the same instinct to survive that we do... they just hide it... I'd like to know who is really like us.

Awe.. comon.. you know it'd be more fun to watch than... either of their speaches or rally soap-boxes.

Last edited by Dashunde; July 3, 2013 at 06:51 PM.
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