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Old June 24, 2013, 08:25 AM   #26
Skarekrow88
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Not trying to highjack this guys thread but my questions might kind of help him too. Which are higher quality, the IO or the M&M rifles? Anyone know the prices? I know the IO's receivers are "made to true Polish blueprints," whatever that means, but what about the M&M M-10's? I'm looking to eventually get another AK rifle but don't plan on spending the money it would take to get another Arsenal (EDIT: Err I mean FIME Group rifle) but don't want to settle for a WASR.
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Old June 24, 2013, 12:12 PM   #27
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If it were my money i'd go M&M. They are are Romanian like the WASR but all the ones i've seen have had consistent clean work unlike the WASR.

As for IO inc I don't care for them as company. They have had bad customer service to me personally in the past (FAL kit I bought from them) plus they IMO changed their name from Inter ordnance to IO inc to escape their bad reputation which BTW stems not just from customer service but workmanship. Maybe they run a better operation these days(I don't care to get bit twice) but given the choice i'd would go M&M or look for something on the used market.
On a side note IO inc's PPS43 and polish archer get good reviews but they also didn't do any of the work on the PPS43 and only conversion work on the archer.
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Old June 26, 2013, 09:27 AM   #28
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So I believe I have a WASR ak47. Romanian. I just inherited it and if rain stops will go try it out.
If this is a lower end would it be worth to sell and upgrade to Saiga or something higher end?
I guess I should shoot first to see how it is. But I do know has chrome barrel and stamped receiver but doesn't look to be the best workmanship but them if fires ok then I'll keep it I think.
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Old June 26, 2013, 08:40 PM   #29
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If this is a lower end would it be worth to sell and upgrade to Saiga or something higher end?
If the sights are straight, the mag doesn't wobble, and it shoots reliably and accurately, there is no reason to get rid of the WASR. A good WASR will shoot just as good as a Saiga; it just won't look quite as good while doing it.

But that shouldn't stop you from getting a Saiga as well. I love mine!
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Old June 26, 2013, 09:18 PM   #30
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Wanting a hammer forged barrel is going to limit your options in today's AK market. Ever since the ATF put barrels on the same level as receivers when it comes to "machine gun parts", most AK type rifles have been produced using US made barrels which are typically not hammer forged. Rifles like Saigas, which start life as a semi auto only "sporting" gun overseas, are about the only option for hammer forged barrels now-a-days.

I'd recommend looking around Atlantic Firearms website. They have probably the biggest selection of AKs on the net and they are great to work with.
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Old June 27, 2013, 04:45 PM   #31
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it just won't look quite as good while doing it.
The bad looks come from the poor finish. By simply swapping out furniture or refinishing the laminated wood you can make your rifle look better. Or a paint job can be added or scope/red dot fitted. Lots of stuff you can do to change the original look.
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Old June 27, 2013, 11:05 PM   #32
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Having watched guys like "brandon401401" (Youtube) use a WASR's irons sights to hit gongs in a free stance from 200-300 yards, maybe just a trigger job on a WASR is enough. "hickok45" also does well with his.

A Tech Sight (rear aperture) can really improve both the AK and SKS groups. The sight distance is so much better on my SKS.

Last edited by Ignition Override; June 27, 2013 at 11:13 PM.
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Old June 29, 2013, 10:36 PM   #33
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I've owned an Arsenal SA M7 Carbine milled and thought that it was a top tier AK-47 rifle in both function and fit&finish.

I sold it a few years ago to "make ends meet" because I will never part with my SAR-1 Century Romanian import. My SAR-1 shoots a tad bit better. The only draw back is you should replace the trigger group with a Tapco G3.

If I was without an AK, based on what I've seen at the last 50 gunshows since 2008, I'd go with something based on the Saiga. The fit and finish along with quality of parts is pretty top notch. The Romanian SAR-1 ,2 & 3 is very good and will perform just as good but will not look as nice.
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Old July 3, 2013, 06:04 PM   #34
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I think we are jumping on the WASR a little to much. I have 2 of them as well as an Arsenal and they have been just as reliable, as my Arsenal. Of course you have to find one that doesn't have canted sights, straight barrels, and make sure the magazine is a good fit. Most of the ones I see at the gun shows now days look pretty good. I have also noticed the price of the WASR'S are climbing, as they seem to be getting a little more elusive. The gun shows used to be flooded with them but not anymore. Anyway I am just taking up for the "beater" WASR. They are at the bottom of the barrel but they run just as good as any of them.
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Old July 6, 2013, 10:03 AM   #35
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Quote:
The Romanian SAR-1 ,2 & 3 is very good and will perform just as good but will not look as nice
Ok, I still have not been out to test my Romanian ak-47, but this 4th of July I will. Went out a few weeks ago and they had range closed for archery! Darn.

I am also testing an old Mauser and will not the difference in 8mm vs. ak ammo as I have never shot either of them before.
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Old July 12, 2013, 12:01 AM   #36
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I think we are jumping on the WASR a little to much.
90% of the trash talk you see is from someone who's never seen one in person much less actually shot one. They just want to feel relevant.

Ask those wannabes if they wanna stand 100yds downrange of a WASR...


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Old July 12, 2013, 07:38 AM   #37
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90% of the trash talk you see is from someone who's never seen one in person much less actually shot one. They just want to feel relevant.

Ask those wannabes if they wanna stand 100yds downrange of a WASR...
The only real problem with the WASRs are how wildly inconsistent the quality is, and the crazy prizes people are asking for them nowadays.

If you have a good one, you have a solid AK. If you have a bad one, you are doomed to never-ending frustration with it. And none of them are worth the asking prices we are seeing these days.
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Old July 12, 2013, 10:38 AM   #38
Trueno
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"never ending frustration"

dude, really...


I believe that in the spring of '07, fixed-stock versions were averaging $305-310 here at the Houston area shows, underfolders ran $10-15 more.

If not the current $670-680, what are WASR-10's "worth" now?

t
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Old July 12, 2013, 01:10 PM   #39
Fishbed77
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"never ending frustration"

dude, really...
If you can deal with canted sights that don't allow enough adjustment to zero the rifle, or a poorly opened magwell that prevents proper feeding, more power to you (or you have very low standards of what to expect out of an AK). I assume most would find this frustrating, and Century's poor 1-year warranty (which starts from date of manufacture) is not comforting.

Of course, as I already stated, a good WASR works as well as any other AK, and I personally have nothing against them.

With prices of nicer rifles such as the new O-PAP dropping below $600 (and unconverted Saigas starting to show up again near the $500 mark), I would not personally pay much over $500 for a WASR.
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Old July 12, 2013, 01:22 PM   #40
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are these for online prices or what you can find at the gunshows? I just looked on Atlantic's site and I didn't see anything in the 500 range. any other dealers worth checking out? I am sure this is just an inventory deal.
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Old July 13, 2013, 01:43 AM   #41
Fishbed77
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are these for online prices or what you can find at the gunshows? I just looked on Atlantic's site and I didn't see anything in the 500 range. any other dealers worth checking out? I am sure this is just an inventory deal.
Here is the O-PAP under $600 (just barely) I mentioned.

http://www.jgsales.com/cai-yugo-akm-...*-p-60085.html
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Old July 13, 2013, 05:13 AM   #42
Trueno
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If you can deal with canted sights that don't allow enough adjustment to zero the rifle, or a poorly opened magwell that prevents proper feeding, more power to you (or you have very low standards of what to expect out of an AK).
Is this lack of QC rampant?
How rampant, on a scale is it 7/10? 9/10?


Quote:
I assume most would find this frustrating, and Century's poor 1-year warranty (which starts from date of manufacture) is not comforting.
Dude, again ***?...please stop with your misinformation.
Warranty on Century firearms starts w/date of purchase, and I don't mean on the docks in Cugir.


Quote:
Of course, as I already stated, a good WASR works as well as any other AK, and I personally have nothing against them.
Yeah, one can tell

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Old July 15, 2013, 11:34 AM   #43
Fishbed77
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Is this lack of QC rampant?
How rampant, on a scale is it 7/10? 9/10?
I never said it was rampant. I said it can be frustrating when it happens.

Quote:
Dude, again ***?...please stop with your misinformation.
Warranty on Century firearms starts w/date of purchase, and I don't mean on the docks in Cugir.
Sturmgewehr's excellent series of videos details his experience with Century's warranty. He is a stand-up guy who's well-respected on this forum and others, and I have no reason to doubt his experiences.

Quote:
Yeah, one can tell
As I have stated numerous times already in this thread, a good WASR is a good AK. I have no objections to owning one, provided the price is right and I have the opportunity to inspect the rifle prior to purchase.
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Old July 15, 2013, 11:44 AM   #44
Trueno
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I assume most would find this frustrating, and Century's poor 1-year warranty (which starts from date of manufacture) is not comforting.
Quote:
Dude, again ***?...please stop with your misinformation.
Warranty on Century firearms starts w/date of purchase, and I don't mean on the docks in Cugir.
Quote:
Sturmgewehr's excellent series of videos details his experience with Century's warranty. He is a stand-up guy who's well-respected on this forum and others, and I have no reason to doubt his experiences.


What does Sturmgewehr's experience have to do with Century's warranty policy stated on their website? Did/does his experience show Century is lying when they state on their website that their warranty starts on the date of purchase and not (as you stated) on the date of manufacture?


t
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Old July 15, 2013, 10:22 PM   #45
Fishbed77
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Trueno,

Perhaps you should read Century's warranty before you come onto this site and begin accusing other folks of lying.

I suggest you read the warranty information Century has posted online:

http://www.centuryarms.com/warranty/...antyPolicy.pdf

The warranty states:

"All firearms/receivers sold as “new”, or manufactured/assembled by Century have (1) year repair/
replacement warranty from the day the firearm/receiver was shipped from Century’s warehouse to the
customer, unless noted otherwise."

As Sturmgewehr learned, this does not mean the final customer (i.e. the consumer), it means whoever ordered the firearm directly from Century's warehouse. In practically all cases, the "customer" is the distributor or retailer.

This means that, if a new Century rifle is sold to a consumer (you or me) in a gun store 11 months after the distributor purchased it from Century, it has all of one month of warranty coverage left.
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Old July 16, 2013, 01:36 AM   #46
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Has anybody else here watched a guy in a free stance, using his WASR's iron sights to hit small metal gongs from 200-300 yards?

Youtube: "Brandon401401" does really well. Even "Hickok45" does a nice job.
How many guys can do that with their AR in a free stance, out to 200 yards?
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Old July 16, 2013, 07:53 AM   #47
Trueno
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As Sturmgewehr learned, this does not mean the final customer (i.e. the consumer), it means whoever ordered the firearm directly from Century's warehouse. In practically all cases, the "customer" is the distributor or retailer.

This means that, if a new Century rifle is sold to a consumer (you or me) in a gun store 11 months after the distributor purchased it from Century, it has all of one month of warranty coverage left.


Oh, this just keeps getting better and better! So, according to you, if the gun sits at the distributor for say...
13 months...then there's no warranty at all, eh? Really?


Do you have an idea yet of why I refuse to take your assumptions/innuendos/statements/so-called facts as gospel at first glance?

t
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Old July 16, 2013, 08:03 AM   #48
Trueno
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Trueno,

Perhaps you should read Century's warranty before you come onto this site and begin accusing other folks of lying.

I suggest you read the warranty information Century has posted online:

http://www.centuryarms.com/warranty/...antyPolicy.pdf

The warranty states:

"All firearms/receivers sold as “new”, or manufactured/assembled by Century have (1) year repair/
replacement warranty from the day the firearm/receiver was shipped from Century’s warehouse to the
customer, unless noted otherwise."


Stop playing victim, nobody called anybody a "liar". However, the tidbit below is what you were called on:

"quote: Fishbed77

If you can deal with canted sights that don't allow enough adjustment to zero the rifle, or a poorly opened magwell that prevents proper feeding, more power to you (or you have very low standards of what to expect out of an AK). I assume most would find this frustrating, and Century's poor 1-year warranty (which starts from date of manufacture) is not comforting."


And now you walk in here trying to throw your weight around enough to cover up the changing of your story to "date of shipping".

So get your story straight...date of manufacture or date of shipment?






and I'M the newb?
(yes, saw your edit via the email LOL!)

t
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Old July 16, 2013, 08:15 AM   #49
Trueno
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today, from Century's current website:

---------------------------------------------------------

Century warranty list
http://www.centuryarms.com/Warranty.html

---------------------------------------------------------

Consumer warranty (street level, that's you and me)
http://www.centuryarms.com/warranty/...20Warranty.pdf

1. One year warranty from the date of purchase. Ammunition 30 days.

---------------------------------------------------------



hope this helps,

t
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Old July 16, 2013, 01:07 PM   #50
lagavulin62
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Can we please return to the original ?
posted by the OP? I have learned a lot
about AK's since the posting of this thread.
Just had to do it on my own research.
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