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Old June 23, 2013, 05:48 PM   #1
Tinner666
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Atlanta Shooting

The shooting was on the 22nd. in Alanta. I won't debate the legalities, but I like how the second shooter spun back to the crowd ready for anything, but the pistol was pointed at his feet and ready for whatever else was going to pop up.
My understanding of the event is another person had already shot the suspect, out of camera view. His SA was spot on in my opinion knowing there were many people behind him, but not knowing if there was a threat there too.


http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/22...e-atlanta-shop

This post is strictly about the tactics on camera.
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Old June 23, 2013, 06:44 PM   #2
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It was hard to see what went down with the small camera angle. I am rather impressed.

The first guy in the white shirt brandished the gun in an incognito. He was pretty smooth about it I didn't notice the gun until the new reporter mentioned it. Older more refined, just wants to buy some new shoes, move along punk "not today".

I couldn't see the shooter draw but he brought the gun up smooth and fast and tagged the guy with a calm smooth group. Nice shooting in ciaos. After, he put the gun down in some horseman's/monkey pose and he looked rather unrefined.
But nice group.

And at least 3 out of 30 were packing,
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Old June 23, 2013, 09:55 PM   #3
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i don't know. Legalities are pretty intrinsic to the situation. Unless I missed something, the shots were on the *fleeing* suspect.

That not cool... These guys are not law enforcement, and we do not carry to help enforce laws.

Not cool.
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Old June 23, 2013, 11:19 PM   #4
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I don’t think we have a clear view of everything the fleeing suspect was doing, so we don’t really know if he was pointing his gun at someone or not. I suppose the Police could come back and charge someone, but so far they seem to feel it was justified.

I know there have been a few high profile shootings in that general community over the last few months and the Police have been under a lot of pressure to crack down. I wonder if that might influence their decision not to charge the victim.
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Old June 24, 2013, 03:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
i don't know. Legalities are pretty intrinsic to the situation. Unless I missed something, the shots were on the *fleeing* suspect.

That not cool... These guys are not law enforcement, and we do not carry to help enforce laws.

Not cool
.

I am not sure of Georgia Law but we do have Lawyers on here that might be able to quote it.

What I perceived was that he shot while the suspect was facing a human being with the gun in a threatening fashion and Self defense is justifiable at that point.

Now once the justification is warranted, at what point the Law says the SD shooter was to stop is sometimes grey.

Just because the guy turned to run, doesn't mean the threat was over and I personally think it would be hard to prove the threat was over in a court of law.
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Old June 24, 2013, 03:40 PM   #6
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Looked like the guy was shot while running away. I wouldn't think it is over yet if I was the shooter I would be looking for a good lawyer.
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Old June 24, 2013, 03:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
i don't know. Legalities are pretty intrinsic to the situation. Unless I missed something, the shots were on the *fleeing* suspect.

That not cool... These guys are not law enforcement, and we do not carry to help enforce laws.

Not cool.
Very cool, shots on a suspect endangering the lives of other people in the public, then checks his 6. Now why he checked there is uncertain. He may have spun back toward the crowd because something was yelled to him, not because he is all tactical and doing the right thing. Without sound, it is hard to know.
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Old June 24, 2013, 04:04 PM   #8
deepcreek
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That not cool... These guys are not law enforcement, and we do not carry to help enforce laws.
Who is "we"? Were you there? and how do you know the guys in the video were trying to "enforce laws"?
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Old June 24, 2013, 04:15 PM   #9
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The video does not show the initial incidents, only the end. Not enough to say just from this snipet of video. But Atlanta police are saying the shooter acted in SD and will not be charged.
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Old June 24, 2013, 10:01 PM   #10
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dspieler,

Quote:
These guys are not law enforcement, and we do not carry to help enforce laws.
He was not a LEO but don't think you cannot make a citizens arrest if you see a serious crime happen before your eyes.

Citizens arrest laws vary from state to state but they do exist.

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Old June 24, 2013, 10:39 PM   #11
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Georgia is a Stand your ground/Castle doctrine state and the law has been tested in court at least 3 times that I am aware of. Georgia also has a very active grass-roots organization called Georgia Carry.
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Old June 24, 2013, 11:27 PM   #12
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Attached is an update to this story. So, it looks like the robber was a pretty bad guy who apparently had been, “arrested several dozen times”. It also turns out the shooter was from out of town and as of now has not been charged.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-l...o-death/nYTJX/
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Old June 25, 2013, 11:46 AM   #13
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Citizens arrest is tricky. The citizen has to follow all the rules of arrest, including the Miranda rules; failure to do that could well result in the subject being freed and suing the citizen for false arrest.

A citizen may use a gun to detain a person whom he/she has reasonable cause to believe has committed a felony and/or is a danger to himself/herself or to others, but if the person chooses to simply walk away, the citizen can (in most states) cannot use deadly force to stop the person.

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Old June 25, 2013, 01:47 PM   #14
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Wow! Two law abiding citizens carrying guns stopping an armed robbery? 1 in 15 people with guns and it's not the wild west? Obviously we're all dreaming some kind of fantasy right now.

I found it a little suspect myself that the person in red continued shooting as the suspect fled, but if the person still has a gun in their hand I could see the argument for it. I think the two law abiding citizens are very lucky this guy didn't have the gumption to shoot as they drew on him.
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Old June 25, 2013, 01:54 PM   #15
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I don't think we see enough of the event to use the video as the basis for any conclusions about good/bad shoot. I AM surprised, however, that the Atlanta PD acted so quickly to make their call one way or the other. Though they claim the shooter is not a police officer, it may well be he was an undercover officer or a store security agent.

It'll be interesting to see if the DA brings this to a grand jury or simply rubber stamps the PD's call on this.
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Old June 25, 2013, 01:57 PM   #16
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Totally irrelevant, but I'm shaking my head over the notion of waiting in line all night long, just for the "privilege" of paying $180 for some VERY ugly shoes.
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Old June 25, 2013, 04:32 PM   #17
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And csmsss, everyone of them had $180 bucks or more in their pockets!

Now in NYC or Chicago the robber would not have worried about the locals having guns (unless he was very unlucky and ran into an off duty cop) but in states like Georgia or Texas, whoa.... people have guns!

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Old June 25, 2013, 04:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
I don't think we see enough of the event to use the video as the basis for any conclusions about good/bad shoot. I AM surprised, however, that the Atlanta PD acted so quickly to make their call one way or the other. Though they claim the shooter is not a police officer, it may well be he was an undercover officer or a store security agent.
I am not surprised at all. Look at all of the victims who were witnesses who have the armed guys to thank for saving them. They probably all told a very similar and very convincing and likely very truthful story.

Besides, the cops can make the call very quickly. We see it often. Doesn't mean the DA will agree, but for the time being, probably nothing conflicted with the notion of it being a bad shoot.
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Old June 25, 2013, 06:53 PM   #19
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Until I saw the follow-up, I didn't know there were two guys. That explains his spinning around to ID the second threat. Kudos to the way he didn't sweep the crowd and remained calm in all the commotion. I think he handled it nicely.

As for PD declaring it a good shoot, it happens here often enough. Some days later, the Da, or ADA will officially declare it one way or the other.
I've been 'cleared' on the scene, rearmed, and never heard anything else about it. It's not that unusual.
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Old June 25, 2013, 08:18 PM   #20
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Yeah, clearly the whole situation was a pretty complicated and it may be the case that the video only gives part of the actual event (how surprising would that be?)

I didn't mean to suggest that I was making a snap judgement about the validity of the shooting, but that from the video, it did seem to be skirting the line.

But, I'm sure Atlanta's finest will figure this out. (As an Atlanta resident, there's just a touch of sarcasm to that statement. Just a touch.)
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Old June 25, 2013, 10:03 PM   #21
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Georgia's definition for stand your ground:

There are 3 code sections that govern when lethal or deadly force may lawfully be used.

Defense from a forcible felony; A person is justified in using threats or force to the degree they reasonably believe it is necessary to stop another person's imminent use of unlawful force. A person is justified in using deadly force which may harm or kill only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony (unless it is regarding defense of habitation, which has its own requirements below). You are not justified if you were the aggressor or you are/were/on-the-way-to committing a felony. (The state has pre-empted local cities and counties from further restricting this defense.)(16-3-21)

Defense of habitation; (here habitation means dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business) A person is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if any one of the following is met:

A person is breaking\has broken into your home in a violent and tumultuous manner, and you think that the intruder is going to assault you or someone else living there.
A person who is not a member of the family or household and who unlawfully and forcibly enters the residence and you know it is an unlawful entry.
The person using such force reasonably believes that the entry is made or attempted for the purpose of committing a felony therein and that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of the felony.

(16-3-23)

Defense of property other than habitation; Lethal force cannot be used to protect real property unless the person using such force reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.(16-3-24)
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Old June 25, 2013, 10:43 PM   #22
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This is Georgia. You're literally more likely to be prosecuted here for shooting a dog than a robber, fleeing or not.

One reason I live here is because we don't have malicious prosecutions like in some other states.
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Last edited by Vanya; June 25, 2013 at 10:55 PM. Reason: political invective.
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