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Old June 22, 2013, 05:29 PM   #1
Pond, James Pond
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Sourcing unfired cases: is this an alternative?

Finding components, or at least widening my choices is a real challenge here.

One member, who has left me in no doubt that they know what they are talking about, recently recommended I develop some loads I have in mind using new cases, given the sort of performance I am hoping to get from the cartridges.

No one stocks .44 cases in this country, as far as I know, and Midway are dry!!

So wear can I find unfired cases?
One thought came to me: unfired factory loads.

Could I buy .44 Mag Magtech rounds, which one shop sells, pull the bullets and decap the cases to leave me with a few extra components and unfired cases? Voila!

Would these be new enough despite having had a 240gr bullet seated and crimped in them?
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Old June 22, 2013, 07:26 PM   #2
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What is wrong with just shooting the Magtech cases and then load them with your conceived load? Once-fired is only slightly different than un-fired.
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Old June 22, 2013, 07:48 PM   #3
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Just out of curiosity, what are you planning to do that would cause you to sacrifice brand new factory ammo?
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Old June 22, 2013, 07:52 PM   #4
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I agree with dahermit. The loads you are intending to work-up will not be too much for once-fired cases. And, if one of those cases has a defect, firing it once will probably reveal that. So, no down-side to firing factory loads for the brass.

With respect to your own suggestion: why would you decap the cases? Just work-up the loads with the factory primers. You should resise the case mouths after removing the bullets, which you can do without decapping by removing the decapping stem from the sizing die.

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Old June 23, 2013, 03:08 AM   #5
Pond, James Pond
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What is wrong with just shooting the Magtech cases and then load them with your conceived load? Once-fired is only slightly different than un-fired.
I prefer re-assign to sacrifice: I could easily use bullet and charge in an S&B case. (the V0 values for fps and ft/lbs are almost identical)

This is not something I had initially planned on: I was happy using my once/twice fired S&B cases, but when experienced reloaders advise me to use new brass for my intended load development, I listen!
If no option exists, then I go with what I've got.
However, when there are options, I explore them even if they do seem off-the-wall...

Truth is I don't know how crucial new brass is to this, but I take safety seriously and I want to develop sound instincts about how to do stuff, hence I listen to recommendations and don't question them too much!

Quote:
With respect to your own suggestion: why would you decap the cases? Just work-up the loads with the factory primers. You should resise the case mouths after removing the bullets, which you can do without decapping by removing the decapping stem from the sizing die.
Yes, I've actually resized primed cases when I realised a batch of .38s had weak charges: what a royal PITA pulling all those bullets was !!

As for the why: simply because it seems prudent to develop a load using the same components I'd later have to rely on if I chose to make yet more of these cartridges.

Quote:
Just out of curiosity, what are you planning to do that would cause you to sacrifice brand new factory ammo?
275gr hard cast .430 bullets at 1050-1200 fps from a 4" Redhawk.
I'd settle for 1100-1150. Not the hottest of loads but still fairly potent.
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Last edited by Pond, James Pond; June 23, 2013 at 04:01 AM.
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Old June 23, 2013, 03:22 AM   #6
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I think you will do just fine with once fired brass, as long as they are just once fired. I’m not sure but I thought Starline was available there, but that would not help much as they are out of stock.
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Old June 23, 2013, 04:00 AM   #7
Pond, James Pond
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I thought Starline was available there, but that would not help much as they are out of stock.
Technically, they are available. However, as you say, they are out of stock.
If there are none in the US, I can guarantee that the EU won't be supplied until that domestic demand is met.

I could try and order PRVI brass, but the one local PRVI stockist doesn't seem to want to...

Some people would rather lose the business but avoid the extra work. Perhaps it is simply not worth their while for the quantities I am looking to get (I'd buy 500 in one go, but not more.... at least not in one go)
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Old June 23, 2013, 06:48 AM   #8
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Midway has Starline .44 mag cases listed as available. Are these not the ones you're looking for?

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Old June 23, 2013, 08:47 AM   #9
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oh crap

At the power level of your intended ammo, you could use those once-fired cases.

If I couldn't find new cases, I would......and have.


If I were looking for 1400--1500fps, I would NOT.......



I have done before exactly what you've considered; I have bought 'factory' cartridges, reduced them to their components, and used the unfired cases (resized, natch)(or on certain occasion, the bullets) for load development.
Tossed the powder.


Seating and crimping the bullet (please note some manufacturers use adhesives to aid securing the bullet) does NOT put similar stresses on the case that firing will.
If using your pull-down case, ensure its mouth is not suspect.
You may successfully trim away its crimped portion without significant change in case volume.



Any help?
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Old June 23, 2013, 12:29 PM   #10
the led farmer
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Sourcing unfired cases: is this an alternative?

Eventually you will re-load those brand new soon to be once fired cases no?

I would argue that you should work up loads in what your going to use (once fired, twice fired etc). In the end i don't think it will make one bit if difference if its new or used as long as it is not damaged brass.

No point in sacrificing a perfectly good factory round unless that's what you really want to do, I say shoot it and then recycle that brass.
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Old June 23, 2013, 01:55 PM   #11
Pond, James Pond
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All good help! Thanks!!

If new cases are not as crucial as all that at my velocities then, good. However as close to new cases as can be is reasonable: and with this logic I....

....have just given myself an excuse to buy 100 Magtech .44 Mags, and shoot them all, and doing so in the name of load development!!

Quote:
Midway has Starline .44 mag cases listed as available.
Midway Germany does not and in an email they stated they had no solid date for re-stocking. I will keep an eye open for those now and then, but I can survive without for now.
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Old June 23, 2013, 02:44 PM   #12
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Starline is backlogged like everyone else. I've been ordering all year, haven't seen more than a 4 week order cycle yet.
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Old June 23, 2013, 03:10 PM   #13
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Problem with your logic is that to keep all components exactly same, once you have developed the load you'll have to keep buying fresh cases. Yet, the brass will differ batch to bath even with the same manufacturer. I fail to see advantage of using unfired brass other than extra strength (even that is debatable) which is not needed for 275gr bullet @ 1200fps
Besides, case fired in your gun will perform better than fresh factory brass and reveal those defective ones that could throw off your results while developing the load.
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Old June 24, 2013, 06:03 AM   #14
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not me; just the messenger

Quote:
difference if its new or used
Call someone you trust, and ask them if any fired case will perform like a new one.
They will tell you they don't.


Quote:
advantage of using unfired brass other than extra strength (even that is debatable)
The debate is long over; know what I mean?
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Old June 24, 2013, 11:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
Quote:
I thought Starline was available there, but that would not help much as they are out of stock.
Technically, they are available. However, as you say, they are out of stock.
If there are none in the US, I can guarantee that the EU won't be supplied until that domestic demand is met.
Starline 44 Mag brass is in stock at www.shooting-supplies.eu in 100 or 500 quantities.

..
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Old June 24, 2013, 11:43 AM   #16
g.willikers
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Once upon a time, my shooting pals and I used to have contests at 100 yds on water bottles.
Our standard load was 11 grains of Unique, over 240 and 250 grain swc bullets, supposedly giving over 1200 ft/sec out of our 44M sixguns.
No one had chronys, so we just went by what was in the manuals.
Those loads were definitely strong, though.
Not having much money, we used our brass as long as possible.
And it lasted a very long time with that load.
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Old June 24, 2013, 01:09 PM   #17
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
Starline 44 Mag brass is in stock at www.shooting-supplies.eu in 100 or 500 quantities.
THANK YOU!!!!


You are a star!
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Old June 24, 2013, 02:12 PM   #18
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Until recently, the only way to get 327 magnum cases for reloading was to use factory ammo and then use the cases for reloading. This is also what I have done for 9mm, .32 acp, and .45 acp over the years. Sometimes it is the only source.

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Old June 24, 2013, 02:13 PM   #19
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
You are a star!
No actually you are.
I meant it in the last post, but I really, really mean it now!

That site is a gold mine: For a start it has H&N bullets: I use those for plinking, but have been limited to the 200gr FN. I have also found the Starline, both magnum and special: all of them cheaper than Miday, but some margin!!

Here's hoping there are no shipping issues!!
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Old June 25, 2013, 01:50 PM   #20
Pond, James Pond
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Problem solved: Using that link, I have just ordered 200 Starline .44Mag, 100 Starline .44 Spl and 100 Magtech .44 Spl.

They should arrive early next week, swiftly followed by my 275 grainers from Midway!!

I see an interesting July lining up!!
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Old June 25, 2013, 02:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You are a star!
No actually you are.
I meant it in the last post, but I really, really mean it now!
Problem solved: Using that link, I have just ordered 200 Starline .44Mag, 100 Starline .44 Spl and 100 Magtech .44 Spl.
Excellent, glad it's useful. Enjoy loading and shooting them (I did tell you about that place 8 months ago)

..
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Old June 25, 2013, 03:05 PM   #22
Pond, James Pond
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(I did tell you about that place 8 months ago)
Ah, yes, right.... um.... embarrassing!

I think at the time I didn't investigate any further because I thought all "out-of-country" orders were for licence holders only...

Still, better later than never: it takes me a while to get there but I do eventually!!

(As it happens I do plan to buy Lapua brass for them for my rifle when my existing Norma cases start to wear out. At the present rate, that will be next year!!)
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Old June 25, 2013, 05:11 PM   #23
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I, for one, am really glad you found a source, hope you don’t run into any more supply problems. Happy loading and good shooting.
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