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Old June 18, 2013, 08:16 PM   #1
Don'tkillbill
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Norinco M14 Clone with a scope

Here is my latest project:

Fake M14 real 308 bullets. Thank Norinco!!!!

My Chinese M14 build.

Fun gun to shoot! Only issue is a few FTE as the mount hangs up brass. My last project was rebuilding a Lee Enfield No4 to full wood. Next project is new furniture and some light work on my 1897 Winchester. Then refurbing a 586's sights.




http://youtu.be/frs5FIr9sQc

http://youtu.be/ZRZzkp_jH4M
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Old June 18, 2013, 08:24 PM   #2
4V50 Gary
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Are the rear sights aligned correctly? If so, its better than the Fed Ord I worked on once. The barrel must have had a hard spot as one point there was a bump in the groove. It was a real peace of work.
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Old June 18, 2013, 08:44 PM   #3
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My rears are ok but I've seen a few with really bad peep holes. My buddy put a set of Garand sights on his and they work great out to 300. Mind you he's been shooting for almost 40 years and can shoot most anything well.
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:01 PM   #4
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Nice Norc
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:06 PM   #5
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Where can you find the Norinco 14s these days and what do they go for?
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:15 PM   #6
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Down here in the lower 48 we must look at the secondary market for
pre-owned Norinco and Poly Tech M14s, they usually sell for about $1K
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
pre-owned Norinco and Poly Tech M14s, they usually sell for about $1K
I can get a basic M1A for a little more than that...does the Norinco or Poly Tech offer anything over the new build Springfield Armory rifles?
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Old June 18, 2013, 09:59 PM   #8
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Chinese M14s are excellent copies of GI M14s, they use a forged receiver, a forged 1-piece op rod and a chrome lined barrel. Norinco & Poly Tech receivers are an excellent host for dream rifle builds.

Many older M1As were built with chrome lined GI barrels and the occasional TRW op rod, but the new ones are made with cast reproduction parts and all M1A receivers are cast... Don't most basic M1As sell for about $1500 and up these days?
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Old June 19, 2013, 05:27 AM   #9
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Norcs go for 400 up here. They even have a short barrel version.

The latest batches , actually the batches in the last 5 years are pretty high in quality. I have 400 for the rifle 150 for the mount and the scope and bipod was 150. 700 bucks is what I have into this Oh and I spent that shooting it. I'm going to get better glass and a few minor adjustments.

SR- The M14 in your picture is wow!

Your link facebook.com/M14HDW.US
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Old June 19, 2013, 06:21 AM   #10
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The holes on the Fed Ord were offset. The jig must have been worn or it was made on Monday by a hungover drill operator. The Fed Ord could be sighted in, but the adjustments wouldn't perform as they should because everything was off centered. Your Norinco sounds like a winner. Enjoy.
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Old June 19, 2013, 12:01 PM   #11
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When did the Chinese import ban hit you guys down south?
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Old June 19, 2013, 12:07 PM   #12
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I have a Norinco (Fed Ord) and a Springfield Armory, Inc., M1A with an NM GI barrel. The Fed Ord shoots better than the SA. Oh, well! Not all is as it should be.

Jim
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Old June 19, 2013, 12:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
don'tkillbill when did the chinese import ban hit you guys down south?
1994



.
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Old June 19, 2013, 03:39 PM   #14
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Dont kill bill, what an appropriate name for your question..

It was under Bill Clinton that we lost the norinco imports.

Norinco sks~$49 dealer cost at their cheapest when bought in bulk.
1000 rounds of 7.62x39~$49 dealer cost when bought in bulk.
Those were the days!!
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Old June 19, 2013, 10:38 PM   #15
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Took the norc-14 out to 500 yards tonight. Got it in the black. It was shooting nice at 300 yards and 500 yards was on me I was a little shakey because Ijust finished shoot a lot of 303 at 200 yards on my Lee Enfield No 4


I passed on a nice SKS on the weekend $209 lament stock Russian. I'm gun poor. As least you can get Mosin's right? I got one coming in next week.
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Old June 20, 2013, 06:31 AM   #16
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I'm pretty sure the import ban was under Bush #1 in 1989.
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Old June 20, 2013, 07:40 AM   #17
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The '89 ban forced them to wear fake flash hiders, but they continued to be imported until 1994.

Quote:
Lee Emerson ... Importer CJA (Southfield, MI) imported Chinese rifles for a short time just prior to September 13, 1994. The stamping CJA SLFD MICH appears on some Norinco rifles and the marking IDE USA SLFD MICH appears on some Polytech Industries receivers. CJA imported the best looking Chinese M14 rifles into the United States.

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Old June 20, 2013, 08:10 AM   #18
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From my personal collection.

The top one is a heel stamped Poly Tech imported in 1989 ... note the functional Chinese lugged flash hider.
I had Smith Enterprise build a custom EBR on this receiver.

The bottom two are side stamped IDE imports.

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Old June 21, 2013, 12:56 PM   #19
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Very cool my rifle came with one 5/20 mag and 5 mag. I picked up a couple more of 5/20's online. I shot it at 500 yards I was doing poppers so I can't talk about my group but at 300 it was the size of fist.
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Old June 21, 2013, 04:26 PM   #20
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CHICOM Import Info

Some info by M14 authority, Walt Kulek, on Chinese M14 imports describing the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Walt posted this on WarRifles.com a while back. His books are available on Amazon.

Take this with a grain of salt keeping in mind these guys are the ones selling $4k peerless rifles at Camp Perry every year.





Chinese M14S Receivers (Polytech and Norinco): The Lowdown

Chinese receivers are the best thing this side of the USGI M14. They are dimensionally perfect, particularly in the area of the bolt lug recesses—something that most commercial receiver manufacturers can't seem to get right. The Chinese receivers are forged, as John Garand intended that the M14 receiver be made. We've never seen a cracked Chinese receiver.

However, the balance of the rifle is suspect, to say the least.

Here’s the full story.

The Chinese bolt is unconscionably soft and must be replaced by a USGI bolt. If the bolt is not replaced, the bolt lugs collapse within a few hundred rounds, leading to dangerously excessive headspace. The barrel/bolt/receiver relationship in the Chinese rifles is, for whatever reason, not the same the relationship found in USGI or even US commercial receivers. For a USGI bolt to close in a Chinese receiver, the receiver must be relieved in front of the bolt lugs. This is the only really good way to fit a USGI bolt.

Some folks mistakenly grind the front of the bolt lugs—which screws up the bolt stop interface, inter alia—or try to get the needed clearance by lapping the bolt—which makes the case hardened layer on the rear of the lugs perilously thin. Further, when you attempt to fit the bolt by removing material from the rear of the lugs, you create a great deal of slop—sometimes called “free headspace”—when the bolt is closed. This “slop” can result in an unsupported case head and blown-up rifle.

You must install a USGI bolt, and you must properly fit it.

With a USGI bolt properly fitted, its bolt face now intrudes into the breech of the barrel so far that headspace becomes dangerously short. Since the Chinese barrel is chrome-lined, the chamber cannot be deepened to achieve proper headspace. Thus, a US barrel needs to be installed so that it can be finish-reamed to the proper headspace.

Now, the gas system. The gas system parts are not compatible with USGI gas system parts. Further, the gas cylinder is not stainless steel as is the USGI gas cylinder. The threads on the Chinese barrel for the Chinese bolt lock differ from the threads on the GI bolt lock, which is another good reason for installing a US-spec barrel. Not only are the Chinese gas system parts not compatible with GI parts, they’re not compatible with each other! That is, two different rifles will have hand-fitted gas pistons, for example. So even if one were willing to put up with the Chinese gas cylinder’s tendency to rust internally, there’s no way to support the system. You can’t get parts. So a USGI gas system must be installed.

The trigger housing is generally good, as are the safety, mag catch & hammer spring assembly, but the trigger/sear and hammer are soft as butter. They must be replaced. The bolt stops are also soft, the cartridge clip guides a mess, and the rear sight assemblies are purely hopeless.

While the op rods can be OK, they do tend to roll out and eventually mess up the cam track in the op rod hump. Most should be replaced with a GI op rod.

The stocks are an unattractive “mystery wood.”

But What About Heat Treating?

Lack of proper hardness is not the only problem with the Chinese bolts. Nearly all (if not all) of the Chinese bolts we have seen—and we have worked on many hundreds of Chinese rifles since their importation began—are too long for proper firing pin retraction. This dimensional "long-coming" is enough to deadline Chinese bolts all by itself. Further, the bolt lugs are not properly shaped to evenly and fully seat in the bolt lug recesses. Heat-treating, even if it could be properly done, would not correct these dimensional flaws.

While the receiver is not quite as hard as that of a USGI M14 receiver, the Chinese receiver's hardness has been empirically determined to be more than sufficient. We've never seen a worn Chinese receiver, even those that have had tens of thousands of rounds through them. Heat-treating is simply not needed.

The Conclusion

When the whole package is considered, we at Fulton Armory strip down to the receiver and start from there. The result is the finest M14-type rifle this side of USGI. However, it’s tough for owners to reconceptualize their “Chinese Rifle” as what it really is, a “Chinese Receiver.”


Very best regards,

Walt

PS The above comments may or not apply to the "Norinco M305" rifles being exported to Canada. We are unable to import one of these rifles to examine it.
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Old June 21, 2013, 04:52 PM   #21
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Walt, there is no mystery about the wood used for the stocks, it's Chu wood.

I've been saying this for years:

Quote:
Chinese M14 Receivers (Poly Tech & Norinco) are the best thing this side of the USGI M14. They are dimensionally perfect, particularly in the area of the bolt lug recesses—something that most commercial receiver manufacturers can't seem to get right. The Chinese receivers are forged, as John Garand intended that the M14 receiver be made.



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Old June 22, 2013, 05:36 AM   #22
Don'tkillbill
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The thing with the Chinese m14's is they get better and better each shipment because the importer and seller have worked together. Note my stock and the lack of machining marks. Some sharp edges anyway the steel is rock on. Remember your M14 guy is seeing the 15-20 year old norc. We Canadians were lucky enough to get them for a while.


I'm sure the 4k rifles are nice and if I had a spare testicle I'd trade for one but I still like having 2
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Old June 22, 2013, 10:32 PM   #23
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LOL... Good point.

It's easy to forget that you guys are getting brand new ones...

I'm not,much for dropping $4k on one myself.
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Old June 24, 2013, 05:18 AM   #24
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For 4 k I would get a 50 bmg single shot or bolt.
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