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Old May 18, 2013, 07:44 PM   #1
Venom1956
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Question on rules of SBR possession

A friend and I had a debate and we don't know the actual answer to this question.

If you have a legal SBR can it be given to another person for range use with your consent or perhaps left at his home overnight for your convenience. Since it has already been legally marked as an SBR and if you gave him a copy of the paper work to keep until he returned it to you? Or if he uses it does he need to be under constant supervision by you and it has to always remain with you?

He said it is like a suppressor it always has to be with you.

While I for some reason felt after it is registered and marked as an SBR it can be treated much like any other weapon... You just need to be sure you have the permit and stuff in order so the actual creation of the weapon is legal.

I've read some stuff @ ar15.com and so on concerning it and you can give it to a person legally to make modifications to the weapon without you needing to be present. Would like your info would really influence future purchases.
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Old May 18, 2013, 08:16 PM   #2
LED
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There is no federal statute or an ATF ruling that says you must not let anyone else touch your weapon because it is Class 3. In our state there are regular machine gun shoots where people freely borrow and fire one another's registered weapons. That said, it is better to look up your state gun laws than rely on the internet chatter. I did.
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Old May 18, 2013, 08:46 PM   #3
Venom1956
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I intend to but the wording is so vague and I like to get as much info as possible prior to making a decision.
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Old May 18, 2013, 09:26 PM   #4
rjrivero
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The ATF requires the registered owner to be "in control of the firearm" at all times. If someone isn't named in the TRUST, or the Registered owner, then they can't be in possession of the NFA firearm.

That doesn't mean no one else can shoot it, but the registered owner must be present. You can't leave it with someone who is not a registered owner of that device.
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Old May 18, 2013, 11:20 PM   #5
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Bingo we have a winner. An NFA item, whether machine gun, SBR, SBS, or any other weapon must at all times be under the "control" of the registered owner. If you are at a range, anyone can hold it or shoot it aslong as you are in the immediate area. Don't go off to get a sandwich and leave it with anyone. Likewise don't leave it with anyone overnight or for any period of time for any reason unless you're in the area. If repairs are necessary you should get a Form 5 approved by BATF with a notation that the weapon will be repaired and returned to you upon completion of repairs. It is also acceptable to send a letter to BATF with the same information, but leaving it with anyone is a transfer of the weapon.

Trusts are a little different. Any listed trustee may possess the item legally.
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Old May 19, 2013, 12:34 AM   #6
Venom1956
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meh makes them far less interesting and appealing. That's what I figured would be the answer. I'll skip making em then thnx.
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Old May 19, 2013, 09:27 AM   #7
rjrivero
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If you're doing it on a trust, you can add and remove trustees very easily without filing any paperwork. Just ammend the trust and move forward.
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Old May 21, 2013, 11:47 AM   #8
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I think there is one exception to this rule if memory serves. In the event the owner moves to a state that forbids the ownership of an NFA firearm, you may store it with a relative in a locked case or some storage device (a safe, locker etc.) that ONLY you have access to.

Don't take my word on this though, but I seem to remember asking a question similar to this a long while ago and that was one answer that was given to me, since I can be deployed for at any time and in some cases, if I'm stationed overseas, I cannot take some if any of my firearms with me.
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Old May 21, 2013, 10:36 PM   #9
medalguy
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Kimio I believe that is correct.. You and ONLY you can have the key/combination to the secured storage container.
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Old June 20, 2013, 04:25 PM   #10
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What do you do when you leave your house and the gun is home and you don't live alone? Is there anyway my wife could be listed as an owner as well? Or will it have to be kept in a locked box when I'm not home? My next gun will be a side by side 12 gauge made basically into a pistol and I plan to buy a holster for it when I go hunting. It's going to be a snake gun.
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Old June 20, 2013, 06:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
WV_gunner What do you do when you leave your house and the gun is home and you don't live alone?
You lock it in the safe that only you have a key.
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Old June 20, 2013, 10:21 PM   #12
medalguy
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If it is unlocked and standing in a corner, then anyone can get control of it when you are gone. CONTROL is the key operative word.
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Old June 20, 2013, 11:10 PM   #13
stumper1300
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The way it was explained to me... if its in your home, its considered in your possession . Even if your not home.
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Old June 20, 2013, 11:28 PM   #14
Theohazard
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Quote:
The way it was explained to me... if its in your home, its considered in your possession . Even if your not home.
Unfortunately, that's not the way the BATFE sees it. If you're not the registered owner or your name isn't on the trust, you can't have possession of the NFA item.

Say you got a CLEO sign-off for the NFA item and you're the registered owner, or you purchased it through a trust but your wife isn't on it: If you're not home and your wife accesses the safe where the item is kept she's in violation of federal law and is eligible to receive ten years of prison food.
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Old June 21, 2013, 10:13 PM   #15
stumper1300
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It was the feds that told me that when I first started inquiring about getting a can.
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Old June 21, 2013, 10:31 PM   #16
Theohazard
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Quote:
stumper1300 posted
It was the feds that told me that when I first started inquiring about getting a can.
I guess I should clarify: If you're not home it's OK to leave your NFA item locked up in your house. However, if you're the only registered owner of that NFA item and someone else has access to the item when you're not home, that's a violation of federal law.

So let's say you leave home and all your NFA items are locked in your safe. And let's say your wife opens that safe. That's a violation of federal law as the BATFE chooses to interpret it. That said, they're not in the habit of busting married couples for this and as a result most people don't worry too much about it. But people who are worried about it, or just want their wife to be able to use their NFA item without them being present, just purchase the item through a trust and include their wife as a trustee.
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