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Old April 4, 2013, 02:13 PM   #76
Wreck-n-Crew
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Has there ever been a situation where the phrase "no blood, no foul" has been more appropriate?
Aggressive, out of control nutjob behind the wheel of a deadly weapon(car) corners man with a gun.
No shots fired.
No face to face confrontation.
911 called, BG properly charged.
Firearm not even pointed in the direction of a human, yet effective nonetheless.
No one dead, heck no injuries of any type.

Explain to me what a better result would have looked like.
I couldn't agree more! You never want to have to take a life and the outcome is what we should all want.

You can disagree ( and be right or wrong, maybe neither) with when he pulled his gun, why he didn't point it, etc., but it worked and the outcome is the best!
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Old April 4, 2013, 03:51 PM   #77
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Good story. I have one too. I lived on a dirt road in Nowheresville just up the lane from an elderly woman. She loved gardening and hated groundhogs eating her veggies. I still love shooting groundhogs, so it was a sweet deal for both of us. One day walking past her house I saw a hog, whacked it, retrieved it from the garden, and tossed it over the bank. Business as usual. I had already walked past the house when I heard screaming coming from the building from two different voices. Suddenly a very big man appears and is walking fast towards me mumbling incoherently and swinging a big hammer. I assumed he was an insane murderer who killed Lily (the elderly woman) and now was planning to kill me too. I was wrong. He was the new owner who just moved in from NYC with his wife. They both loved wildlife, they both hated guns, she was terrified of country living, and she was horrified at witnessing what I had just done. Anyways, when this man got too close to me for comfort, I pointed the rifle at him and told him to stop right there or I would shoot. He immediately paled, beg me not to shoot, dropped the hammer, and backed away to the house telling me he was going to call the police. Now I don't know what to think, but knew I had to hang around until the police came. The State Police were indeed called and I explained myself truthfully and honestly to the Trooper. That Trooper believed me when I said I feared for my life and he understood why I did what I did. He somehow convinced the man not to press charges, so I went home that day instead of to jail. It could have turned out differently had a different Trooper responded to the call. I was lucky that day.
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Old April 9, 2013, 07:52 PM   #78
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I've read a lot but not all of this. Sounds to me like it was well handled but to the OP:
Would it not have made sense to call 911 as soon as the guys erratic behavior became apparent?
I have done that on a couple of occasions in the past - in both of them only to find out that I wasn't the first call about the guy in question. He'd been menacing drivers up the road for a while.
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Old April 9, 2013, 08:08 PM   #79
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Good job to the OP. I have to say I would have done little different if I faced such a situation.

I am even torn about whether or not I agree with the thought of calling 911 during the roadragers antics. While part of me thinks that would be very useful for the 911 operator to be able to hear the roadrager pounding on the window and yelling at the OP, it also would be a distraction. Common sense tells me that in a high stress situation, I should focus on my own self defense first.

But thats just me and my opinion, doubt I'd get 2 cents for it.
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Old April 9, 2013, 09:27 PM   #80
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I think you did very well. Especially calling the police first.
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Old April 10, 2013, 11:00 AM   #81
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Common sense tells me that in a high stress situation, I should focus on my own self defense first.
I think it really all depends on the situation. Obviously, if your safety was immediately in danger, save the phone call until after it's over. If it were me, and I had time to call, I'd call first. Dial 911, put phone on speaker, throw it into the seat next to me. Now there's a recording of everything that happened if worse comes to worse, you can still talk to the dispatcher if need be, but you have both your hands free in the event you need them to defend yourself. Sounds like a win-win...but ONLY if there's an opportunity to make the call.
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Old April 18, 2013, 07:38 PM   #82
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I think the OP did fine. There's no telling what the bad guy was capable of or what weapons he had hidden on him. Who knows, he might have become more enraged when the OP didn't get out of the car or when he couldn't break the window. If the bad guy had broken the windown and then landed a hard shot to the temple or jaw, the OP is knocked out or worse.

It's easy to judge behind our computer screens, but we weren't there. Just reading the story got my heart racing a bit. I'm in my early 40's but have certain medical issues that certainly make me think twice about getting even into a fist fight. Things like high blood pressure, asthma, my dominant arm has had recent issues with tendinitis and degenerative changes, not having perfect vision, etc. All things that would put me at a disadvantage and yes, possibly create a disparity in force. I have no MMA training, didn't wrestle in high school, and go out of my way to avoid fights or confrontations.
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Old April 19, 2013, 12:29 AM   #83
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I never understood when you stopped your car going in reverse. I know you said y'all passed some kids playing in the grass. But you and other car were in the road. And your car had mirrors and you could see no one was behind you whether it was another car or a kid. Secondly, maybe call 911 right when he got out and put cell phone on speaker phone and lay phone in seat or dash. And third, you know when he slams on brake and gets out he's not coming up to be friendly- did you not fear for your life then? Maybe If you would have gotton pistol right then, it would have ended or escalated if that happened well then you'd already be prepared for whatever you had to do. But if you could have backed up and drove away. Why not do that?
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Old April 19, 2013, 09:39 AM   #84
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I feel bad for you OP.

A lot of armchair commandos and Monday morning quarterbacks are haggling you.

I know you came on here and posted that to see what people would think. I hope you know you'll always be criticized.


Like in LE. You have a split second decision to make and when people who appear after the fact can look at it in a thousand different angles and have days, weeks, months, years to decide what would have been a "better" move.

I see it as that. I see that in the end you did everything you felt was right at the time. No shots fired. Everyone went home. You did well by me, in that moment.

Don't take these comments to heart. Some are just trying to help, some are saying what they think they would have done. No one knows for sure because nothing is black and white. No incident is the same as the previous or next.



-rant off-

Give the guy a break.
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Old April 20, 2013, 05:48 PM   #85
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Quote:
I feel bad for you OP.

A lot of armchair commandos and Monday morning quarterbacks are haggling you.

I know you came on here and posted that to see what people would think. I hope you know you'll always be criticized.


Like in LE. You have a split second decision to make and when people who appear after the fact can look at it in a thousand different angles and have days, weeks, months, years to decide what would have been a "better" move.

I see it as that. I see that in the end you did everything you felt was right at the time. No shots fired. Everyone went home. You did well by me, in that moment.

Don't take these comments to heart. Some are just trying to help, some are saying what they think they would have done. No one knows for sure because nothing is black and white. No incident is the same as the previous or next.

-rant off-

Give the guy a break.
Sounds right to Me, Constantine.

We live in Florida, you put your life in your hands when you aggressively approach a vehicle you have cut off!

I am 77 YOA, boxing some one is not going to happen. I have a great ear piece in my left ear, against the window. Press a button, say Police, it dials 911.

A Glock 19 sits under my shirt. Or I am in uniform, armed. I drive a marked Security Jeep. Reflective tape all over it.

I have lived in Orlando for ten years, no problems with anyone whilst driving.

Our biggest problem here, is dodging the tourists!
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Old May 9, 2013, 09:17 PM   #86
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Jc06,
I believe you did well in a situation that happens just too often.
I have heard and read that some people state that they would never carry a gun because they simply could not "Trust Themselves" to carry a deadly force weapon.
I had a hard time wrapping my head around that kind of self conviction, until i happened upon ABC's 20/20 a few weeks ago. Yes i know ABC is a "Gun Hating" tabloid, but i was astonished by what was featured that night.
"Loosing It" was the program title;
The situation is a road rage where the enraged party, with wife AND daughter in vehicle when "He"(driver) believed that "He" was cutoff.
The enraged driver pursued the believed offending vehicle for 40 min and then the pursued vehicle with 3 young occupants pulled into their residence and upon stopping here is the video taken by a back seat passenger with a cell phone camera;
VIDEO
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Old May 9, 2013, 09:53 PM   #87
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Wow. When the two kids got out brawling, my thought was "And that's why I'm going to keep a gun in the car". Then his wife got out with a gun and the situation just got 10 times worse. Hope those parents end up in prison and the little girl finds a good home.
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Old May 10, 2013, 10:58 AM   #88
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yes, .mr. Rage was charged and his wife also was bing charged as an accessory.
i don't know how much the video showed but the enraged man left and then returned to shoot out the windows of the other vehicle.
When i made the statement to the effect i couldn't understand someone testifiying that they couldn't trust themself with a gun, in some way i have to agree with that statement even with myself. None of us know what we might do if we allow Rage to control us.
The young driver should have called 911 much earlier in this ordeal imo
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Old May 11, 2013, 09:45 PM   #89
spaniel
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I'm a bit amazed by the armchair QBs on this one. Wow.

Look, some crazy dude starts trying to bust the glass on your car...he is standing and you are sitting, strapped in. If that glass breaks, how are you going to defend yourself? Once he reaches in and grabs you, it's too late to go for the gun.

As for "two adult males, no uneven force", remember that a soccer coach was recently killed by a single punch from a 17-year-old. It's not about fighting fair. The law does not require you to start taking blows before you defend yourself. If you are armed the worst thing you can do is let it close to blows before you try to draw your weapon; it will likely be turned on you.

The OP stopped a threat and everyone left physically unharmed. The police agreed. I'm a bit stymied why people still have a problem with this?

As for the people questioning why he didn't continue backing up because he had seen kids behind him, but he had mirrors etc...several months ago I was driving with my family on a four lane freeway and a guy was driving slow (~7mph under speed limit) in a BMW in the left lane. So I swung in a lane, casually passed him (using blinkers with plenty of space), no big deal. The guy went ape, laid on the gas, and started to come around me on the shoulder (2 wheels on grass at 70mph and accelerating). As soon as I cleared the big rig I was passing, I swung in 2 lanes (as far as I had clearance to go) to get away from the idiot and just let him go. But no, he pursued me, cutting off the semi and nearly jack-knifing it. He deliberately tried to side-swipe me, I tapped the brakes just a bit and held steady, I still don't know how we didn't make contact. Once he was in front of me he locked up the brakes, I got left one lane again so he accelerated and got in front of me to block me again.

By now I had grabbed my phone from the console and held it up in the windshield to make him think I was recording (I did not have time/attention to actually manipulate it to start recording). He saw it and suddenly became a model citizen. I snapped a photo of his plate and called 911, he shot off the next exit and with no video of the incident of course nothing came of it.

Afterward my wife asked me why I'd almost let him hit us, why I had not cut over another lane or braked harder. She indicated I had plenty of room. But in the heat of the moment, focusing on the imminent threat and avoiding the collision, I did not have TIME to check all of my options. I had to act on my mental picture as it existed the last time I had checked my surroundings.

If you think you have a bunch of the kids next to the street right behind you, I would have done no different than the OP.

BTW it's all about avoidance. In the example above I was carrying, and the exit the road rage driver got off was actually my exit. I was on the phone with 911 and could have followed him off (it was my way home) and told them where he went. Instead I took the long way just to get as far away from him as possible.
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Old May 11, 2013, 11:36 PM   #90
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i was just thinking of that 17 yr old killing that coach when i read those comments

if he had chose to fight, best case scenario you both probably go to jail for mutual combat. Worst case scenario you get hit in the wrong place and die, or he gets hit in the wrong place and you spend the rest of your life in prison

i think what you did was right
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Old June 10, 2013, 04:20 PM   #91
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He obviously was not being very reasonable. The police felt you handled things just fine, which I personally think is more gratification than anyone here is able to offer. If they had any suspicion that you were improperly using your gun they most likely would have taken your permit. Waving guns around is after all a crime.
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Old June 10, 2013, 04:48 PM   #92
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Another thumbs up.

The guy sounds like he was making himself pretty darn threatening. You stayed in your car, and prepared yourself in case he escalated things further. I think the LE had a positive responce as well.

I think the only thing I would have done diffrent would have been not to go to where I lived, but then again, I live in the woods and don't have the benifit of lots of neighbors and abiguity in the exact location where I reside.

Did you get his plate number and are the cops following up on what happened?
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Old June 10, 2013, 06:00 PM   #93
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Don't know what state your in, but some areas would have charged you for drawing a firearm since they would question the level of danger and disparity of force.
Pardon my attitude here, but dammit I sure do get tired of this kind of "you could have gotten charged" nonsense.

Fer kreest sakes, the guy was trying to break the glass in the victim's car. Exactly what more level of danger would you suggest the victim submit to before drawing his weapon?

I just came upon this thread. Sorry I'm a little late to the party. The OP did exactly right. Quit looking for reasons to get hurt or killed for fear of brandishing a weapon when you're getting attacked.


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Old June 13, 2013, 08:52 AM   #94
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I have done similar

I pulled into a domestic without realizing it. Made a turn and people were fighting in the middle of the road. The male aggressor was now separated from the female by my vehicle and the people who were trying to separate it were in front of me forcing me to stop.

The male tried to punch my window but hit the door frame instead. I clutched and shifted into reverse while drawing my revolver with the other hand. The car lunged backwards just enough to gain separation and gtfo dodge.

We inadvertently gave her enough time to run for her life I believe and driving skills were way more important than shooting skills that night.

It is easy to MMQB but split second decisions are tough to make. I will say however learning some defensive driving skills would do alot of people a world of good.

Regards, Vermonter
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Old June 13, 2013, 09:04 AM   #95
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Never had to pull a gun but you handled the situation well IMO.
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Old June 14, 2013, 11:19 AM   #96
craZivn
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This



is worth it's weight in gold.

Camera takes three seconds to power up and get rolling, costs about $100 (the mount was an additional $12 from Amazon) and provides rock-solid evidence of any roadside interaction, whether it be with a police officer or raging lunatic. Or a combination.

Ivan
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Old June 14, 2013, 01:09 PM   #97
Vermonter
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Hmmm

Unless that thing has a 360 view there is no possibility of it knowing everything you know at the time. You know just like the dash cams those police are carrying I guess it would work to prove what you did in the situation assuming you stayed in your car.

Regards, Vermonter

ETA: My original message here may have taken out of context as it was pointed out to me. My point is that much like an officer there will be things you can see and know that the dash cam misses. Those things often make up the totality of the circumstances. The poster above me commented negatively regarding the police and my original comment stemmed from that. If you know me well enough here you know I am pro LEO for sure. Again OP GREAT JOB.

Last edited by Vermonter; June 15, 2013 at 08:51 AM.
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