The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 12, 2013, 12:14 PM   #26
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 2,001
Quote:
Just the shooting will burnish the barrel. The bullet will do a tiny bit of polishing with every shot.
Let me ask this and I will add Im not asking to argue but to get what you all think .

If we are looking to burnish the barrel evenly . I would think you would need to remove all foriegn materials out of the bore before each shot . If copper biulds up in the bore the bullet is running on it and not the bore it self . This to me would give a bore uneven burnishing . After 100 rounds or so when you cleean all the copper fouling from the bore those parts of the bore that were under that fouling will have had no burnishing . That to me would not be a good and quick way to get your rifle shooting it's best . Sure it will get done sooner or later but why not get it done in 20 rounds rather then 200 .

EDIT : Thats funny eldermike we were thinking and posting the same thing at the same time

Last edited by Metal god; June 12, 2013 at 12:19 PM.
Metal god is online now  
Old June 12, 2013, 12:33 PM   #27
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,296
Break

Quote:
have a brand new Colt AR 15 match target competition with a 20" 1in9 twist barrel, what is the right procedure to break in the barrel ?
I have had a similar Colt for a couple of decades now...faster twist barrel. What I did was:
Quote:
the right procedure...
1. shoot the gun
2. take it home
3. take back out some other time
4. shoot it some more.
5. repeat with cleanings every once in a while.
It works.
Pete
__________________
"Only hunting and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are just games." - R.Ruark
NRA Life Member
darkgael is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 01:44 PM   #28
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,813
Myself- I clean after ever shot for the first 50 rounds and then after every 3 shots for 50 more. After that I shoot as normal and clean when I get home.
For those that think it is a waste of time-- Have you ever done it to one of your rifles to see if it makes a difference?. I would bet not.
Does it make a difference?.. I don't think that quetion will ever be answered.
As for accuracy-- Deer gun or bench gun?. I own only bench rifles,so I want them to last as long as possable. 17,000 rounds down the 223 and still shoot primers out of 9MM cases at 100 yards. Shooting MOA- Is not that impressive people. In the end--Break your rifle in the way you want and enjoy.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 08:44 PM   #29
stubbicatt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2007
Posts: 1,076
Perhaps it is a function of the nature of the barrel and the use you will put it to, combined with your steadfast beliefs.

I suspect a borescope could tell us volumes...

I know when I get my Brux barreled 6.5x47 BAT actioned rifle, I WILL be using a form of barrel break in.

I didn't bother with my Mosin Nagant.
stubbicatt is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 08:49 PM   #30
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
Metal god, I don't have a clue. All I know is that other than some sort of reasonable cleaning after a shooting session, I don't bother with much thought about the whole deal.

Whether or not copper builds up evenly or unevenly? I don't care, since I've never had any sort of problem for group size. Once I get everything dialled in for bedding and load development, I'm done with concern.

Sure, there is copper buildup. But until my groups open up a bit, I've never done anything exceptional about it. A go-around with copper solvent and I'm generally good for a long time.

I bought my '06 and my .243 back around 1971. Once dialled in, they've been sub-MOA ever since. Same for my .223 bolt gun.

I dunno. It's all seemed simple and easy, decade after decade.
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old June 12, 2013, 09:56 PM   #31
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 2,001
Art : yeah I don't know either thats why I asked . Really all I do with a new rifle is run a bore snake with CLP threw a few time to make sure there is nothing from the factory left behind and go shoot . No break-in or anything . For one of my rifles I'm not even cleaning the bore at all after shooting . I heard of this copper equilibrium idea and i'm trying it out . The idea is at some point you are removing just as much fouling from the bore as your leaving . At that point you have reached a copper and fouling equilibrium and your rifle should shoot the same from shot to shot for a few hundred rounds . The rifle should have no POI shift from the last time you went shooting or from the first shot of the day to the last shot of the day . Thats the theory any ways I'll see sonn enough . I only have about 50 rounds threw the rifle as of now and that was one range trip . I gotta say it was hard just putting the rifle away and not clean it . I did whipe it down but nothing to the bore . It felt like I was letting an old friend down .
Metal god is online now  
Old June 13, 2013, 05:49 AM   #32
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,296
Course of fire

Quote:
. The rifle should have no POI shift from the last time you went shooting or from the first shot of the day to the last shot of the day . Thats the theory
Correct. Look at the High Power rifle shooters. The National Match course of fire is 50 rounds. The full course HP match is 80 rounds at distances from 200 (standing) to 600 yards (slow fire prone).
The rifles had better be able to shoot to POA for that many shots.
Pete
__________________
"Only hunting and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are just games." - R.Ruark
NRA Life Member
darkgael is offline  
Old June 13, 2013, 01:59 PM   #33
Dragline45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4runnerman
Myself- I clean after ever shot for the first 50 rounds and then after every 3 shots for 50 more. After that I shoot as normal and clean when I get home.
For those that think it is a waste of time-- Have you ever done it to one of your rifles to see if it makes a difference?. I would bet not.
.....

I find it amazing that even with the link to the thread with Gale McMillan explaining the origins of the barrel break in process, and how it was all a gimmick by one barrel maker to get more business, that people are still defending this ridiculous myth. I mean seriously guys.


.

Last edited by Dragline45; June 13, 2013 at 02:08 PM.
Dragline45 is offline  
Old June 13, 2013, 05:14 PM   #34
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 2,232
If all rifles are test fired at the factory then why would there be anything in the bore to clean out before shooting it ? Why not just look down the bore and if its not plugged in anyway chootem ?
rebs is offline  
Old June 13, 2013, 07:10 PM   #35
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,540
rebs, it's mostly a "general principles" thing. Insurance. With a gun that is new to me, I commonly at least field strip it and check it over, doing a light oiling and just running a patch through the barrel.

As a for instance on this "take it out of the box and shoot it", I found that my brand-new 700 Ti had been assembled with the bolts at maybe 20 inch-pounds of torque, not the specified 60 inch-pounds.

You never know...
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old June 14, 2013, 05:54 PM   #36
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,813
Dragline
I find it amazing that even with the link to the thread with Gale McMillan explaining the origins of the barrel break in process, and how it was all a gimmick by one barrel maker to get more business, that people are still defending this ridiculous myth. I mean seriously guys


For what it's worth-- You believe everything he say's. I shoot F-Class open and I can tell you 9 out of 10 clean there gun and do a break in on the barrel.
As I stated If it makes you feel better do it. If it don't then more power to you

Apperantly 9 out of 10 bench shooters do not agree with Mr Gale.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old June 14, 2013, 06:49 PM   #37
globemaster3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 28, 2006
Posts: 1,208
And more than 9 out of 10 bench rest shooters are not world reknown barrel manufacturers...
__________________
NRA Life Member
Active Duty USAF 1994-Current
globemaster3 is offline  
Old June 14, 2013, 08:40 PM   #38
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,813
Globemaster--no they are not,but they are the best shots in the world. A wise man once said you want to be the best,,train with the best.

McMillan--great barrels, but not my choice.

Wow--Never thought by making a statement so simple it could cause such a ripple in peoples lives. Listen--We all have our own opinions, mine no better than yours,,yours no better than mine,,Sorry for the difference in thought. I will be more clone like in the future -OK
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

Last edited by 4runnerman; June 14, 2013 at 08:54 PM.
4runnerman is offline  
Old June 14, 2013, 09:05 PM   #39
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,349
If you're a benchrest shooter, you might want to look at the guy winning the matches and find out what he's doing right.

Otherwise, clean the bore after every shooting session and the same goal is being accomplished as the typically recommended break-in but without all the hassle. It might take a little longer before the barrel smooths out, but that's not going to change the shooting performance of the gun in most cases.

If the gun won't get through a shooting session without starting to show accuracy degradation due to copper fouling buildup, then you might want to consider getting the bore lapped, or maybe cleaning more frequently to remove the copper fouling and to speed the normal burnishing process.

If the bore is already lapped, and the lapping was done right then you shouldn't need any sort of break-in at all.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old June 14, 2013, 09:19 PM   #40
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,813
John- I agree with all you say,short of the last statement. This thread started out on barrel break in only. Not cleaning every shot for the life of the barrel. I break my barrels in my way and have no issues with those that don't. Seems there are a few in here that can't deal with that. I break in my barrel and then i shoot as all others do, cleaning when i get home. I have a match next week now. 60 rounds non stop, I have no issues shooting that. To those that don't break in your barrels as I do-- I did not mean to offend.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old June 14, 2013, 09:28 PM   #41
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,349
I was just answering the question in general, not responding to your post in specific.

My rationale for the last sentence in my post is that the various break-in processes are supposed to provide the same benefit as lapping the bore. They're both intended to smooth the barrel. So if the bore is lapped, it should already be smooth and it shouldn't need more smoothing unless it wasn't lapped properly.

As far as offending anyone--there would be no point in a place like TFL if we all had the same background, knowledge, experience and opinions. And since the point of TFL is discussion, those who are offended by differing opinions, or by the suggestion that they aren't omniscient, aren't going to have much fun here.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old June 14, 2013, 10:15 PM   #42
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,813
John.. interpeted your statement wrong---sorry, As for difference of opinion, Yes that is what it is about,but it can be done with out sarcasm also.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09768 seconds with 9 queries