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Old June 4, 2013, 02:15 PM   #1
Pond, James Pond
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What do I need to learn and how...

... when there are no training courses?

This is the question I asked myself over the weekend.
Before asking that question I had asked myself another question:

How can I get a non-firearms topic onto the forum, simply to share in good news, without it being spotted by the eagle-eyed mods?

Asking the second question answered the first!!

You see, last Thursday, our daughter and first child was born...

Provided my dogs didn't fidget and my wife held our daughter close I could just about wrap my arms around them all. In doing so I knew that, distant family and friends aside, these are the dearest parts of my life.

I want them all safe and sound, particularly the little pair of vocal chords on legs that now shares our bedroom.

So I want to train more. I want to get more proficient with my firearms with the fervent hope it is all a waste of time for never having to use them.

I want to learn to avoid trouble better (despite it never finding me yet, touch wood) or tackle it better if avoidance has failed.

There are perhaps a couple of places that do training courses here, but I don't know if they are actually teaching decent techniques.

I can shoot straight, but not fast. In IPSC my scores are good, my times are bad. I can hit CoM at 25yds, but it won't be an uber tight group.

So what drills do you recommend?
Which videos give good advice?
Which sites have clear instructions?

Help me in this part of being a good dad!
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Old June 4, 2013, 02:27 PM   #2
BigD_in_FL
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Quote:
In IPSC my scores are good, my times are bad. I can hit CoM at 25yds, but it won't be an uber tight group.
Maybe bad for IPSC, but not for HD/SD. Make your first shot count and you won't need another so quickly.........

Better a solid hit with a .22 than a loud miss with a .44, as the old saying goes
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Old June 4, 2013, 02:36 PM   #3
Frank Ettin
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First, congratulations.

Second --

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pond, James Pond
...I can shoot straight, but not fast...
Have a look at this thread. There were some good suggestions there addressing this.

Also, IPSC is an excellent way to work on basic skill under the stress of competition, e. g.: moving safely with a loaded gun, shooting quickly and accurately, target acquisition and identification, engaging multiple targets, moving and shooting, shooting while moving, reloading, etc.

Let's see what suggestions others come up with.

NOTE: The OP is not in the U. S., so suggesting U. S. schools will not be helpful.
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Old June 4, 2013, 02:53 PM   #4
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
First, congratulations.
Thanks!! (said wearing a big grin!)

Quote:
Have a look at this thread. There were some good suggestions there addressing this.
I have actually used PAX's speed-up drill. Brilliant!! It is really brilliant!

I guess what I also mean though, are those little pearls of wisdom about how to use/maximise cover and stuff like that.

Side note. IPSC is good for many things, but I don't think you're allowed to shoot whilst moving: if you are caught moving (your feet) with your finger in the trigger guard: DQ!!
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Old June 4, 2013, 03:03 PM   #5
Bartholomew Roberts
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The PDF derived from SouthNarc's Managing Unknown Contacts course is worth a read. That type of information seems to be a lot more useful in providing security than most gun skills.
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Old June 4, 2013, 05:46 PM   #6
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pond, James Pond
...Side note. IPSC is good for many things, but I don't think you're allowed to shoot whilst moving: if you are caught moving (your feet) with your finger in the trigger guard: DQ!!
You might have slightly different rules there. Here, under USPSA (the U. S. member of IPSC), one may shoot while moving. The trigger finger may be on the trigger while moving as long as you are indeed actually firing the gun (down range engaging targets of course). I was a USPSA certified range office (but let my certification lapse because I stopped actively competing).
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Old June 4, 2013, 06:07 PM   #7
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
You might have slightly different rules there.
I'll check. If it is allowed, that would be a useful skill to have...
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Old June 5, 2013, 03:56 PM   #8
c.j.
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"... when there are no training courses?"

I live in a fairly remote area, yet know at least 2 regular instructors, know of 3 others, and know of at least 3 or 4 others who are qualified but don't advertise regular classes. I'm wondering where you might be that has IPSC but no training courses available?

Videos, books, and practice are all good, but there are points where having someone who knows what to watch for is extremely helpful!
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Old June 5, 2013, 11:09 PM   #9
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.j.
...I'm wondering where you might be that has IPSC but no training courses available?...
The OP is in a small country in the northern part of Eastern Europe bordering on the Russian Federation and along the north end of the Baltic Sea.

Outside of the U. S. practical weapons craft training is very hard to come by unless one is military or law enforcement. But IPSC really is international.
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Old June 5, 2013, 11:40 PM   #10
n5lyc
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From someone who shot competition for years, concentrate on accuracy, speed comes later.

While you may not THINK you are fast, the times will get better as you become more proficient..

Kind of like losing/gaining weight, you don't see the daily/weekly change because you see yourself everyday in the mirror, but look at a photo from last year, and you see the difference.

If you keep a record of your times, you will notice them getting faster than they were 6 month/ a year ago..

Good luck.

Ian
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Old June 6, 2013, 04:48 AM   #11
dayman
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If your range will allow it, draw from a holster for every shot.

Having to bring your gun up and get a sight picture every time seems to help develop the mussel memory necessary for fast follow ups. If you're use to getting your gun into position all the way from your holster, getting it back down after you fire seems easier. Plus it makes you go through ammo slower.

Also, I'll definitely echo the call to get a timer, and start recording times. Also - when you start working on rapid fire - record group sizes. Then look at your trends every 10 range trips or so.
I'd caution against obsessing over the numbers too regularly. Record them judiciously, but only look at them when you have enough to actually see a trend. We all have bad days, but I'd imagine if you look at enough data at once you'll see that you're getting faster and more accurate.

But it's a slow process. The occasional blow-hard aside, I imagine everyone here would tell you that they want to be faster and more accurate than they are. That's why we train.

Also, congratulations! When my son was born 2 years ago it also served as my wake-up call to be more vigilant. Being the protector of one large man was easy, being the protector of a wife and child takes some more work.
But it's a whole lot of fun too. Having a kid is easily the best thing that's ever happened to me - even if it did mean loosing my den, and having to be obsessive about locking my guns away.
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Old June 6, 2013, 08:47 AM   #12
kraigwy
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Quote:
In IPSC my scores are good, my times are bad
So what. I have the same problem because I'm old and slow. But I'm a firm believer in accuracy first.

In Self Defense you need to account for every round out of the gun. Misses go somewhere. I'd rather be accurate my self.

But still stick with IPSC or what other action pistol shooting you can find.

THEN:

Read every thing you can on Crime Reports in the paper/internet. See what is happening in the real world.

An example, I just read about an 83 year old lady who was car jack, kidnapped and killed. Practice shooting from the seat of your car ( or simulated via a chair if you don't have a place to shoot from a car) Do it as if you had seat belts on.

That's just an example, read the news papers and internet on robberies, rapes, etc etc to get an idea of what the bandits are doing and come up with defensive measures to protect your self and your young family.

Which by the way, congrats on your new addition.
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Old June 6, 2013, 07:34 PM   #13
locnload
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Pond, welcome to fatherhood its a wonderful place. That little girl, your lovely wife that brought her to you, and the pets that make them both smile, need you around. So first and foremost, safety, you can't be there for them if you shoot yourself while practicing or go to jail for negligently shooting someone else. Concentrate on the basics, good grip, sight alignment, trigger press. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. I suspect that you know this stuff, this is just a reminder to work on perfecting the basics until whether you are shooting at a paper bulls-eye target or a crazy man with a machete, your shots go where you intend them to. The high speed low drag "tacticool" stuff can come later. I don't know what part of the world you are in, but keep your ears up for good nationally known instructors that travel and may be coming within reasonable distance from your home. I try to get to at least one training every year and study under different people. You'll get a good variety of skills, techniques, and opinions on whats important. I recently took a five day course at "Marksmanship Matters" near Provo Utah. Its a great course with heavy emphasis on safety, mindset, and of course marksmanship, and definitely added to my defensive skill set. Enjoy that new baby. Good luck.
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