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Old April 16, 2013, 05:00 PM   #26
m.p.driver
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Probably many trolls have never fired a m-60,least alone carried one.Never had a runaway on a cold one,always one that had been operated in a sustained fire mode.For the arm chair experts i would recommend downloading FM 3-22.68,and read up on what to do with a runaway.Or i guess, a condition that is impossible to happen.I must have been hallucinating when i saw on many occasions,the gunner drop the butt on the ground,hand off the grip,and tracers lofting downrange.
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Old April 16, 2013, 07:05 PM   #27
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I fired/worked on hundreds of 60's. A lot has to do with the time period it was made. They (M-60s) would actually start to come apart if they had enough early parts on them. The early barrel latch would vibrate loose and the barrel would come out. If the gas piston was not safety wired on, the cylinder cap would open up and lose the piston. The early rivets would pop out and the receiver would start to come apart ( There was actually a quick fix welding jig in the system to repair loose receiver rivets. It worked like crap and ruined the receiver). I even remember a couple that had the barrel socket come loose, not while firing though. There is a lot more when it comes to assembly and design problems. Could you run a couple cans through with long bursts? In a new gun. Hell, we just tilted the gun, hit the latch, yelled look out below and threw a new barrel in. For the guy in the Navy: I had to take some guys out to qualify when a float came in. Until that day I had no idea that an M-60 would chamber a round with the bolt mounted backwards on the op rod! I also was around when the 240 was mounted in the 60 series tanks as a co-ax gun. It is better.
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Old April 16, 2013, 07:05 PM   #28
Theohazard
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Being a former Marine machine-gunner, I don't have a lot of experience with the M60, but I have a lot of experience with the M240G, which is similar in terms of operation. The M240G, just like the M60, fires from an open bolt. The bolt is locked to the rear when the trigger is not being pressed; the trigger pull releases the bolt, it slams forward, chambers a round, fires it, then the bolt goes back and if the trigger isn't held anymore the bolt locks back to the rear. So if the chamber is so hot that it would cause a round to cook off, it doesn't really matter because there is no round in the chamber in between bursts.

So on an open-bolt belt-fed machine-gun it is impossible to have a runaway gun because of a cook-off; in fact, it's impossible to even have a cook-off in the normal sense of the word because every time a round is slammed into the chamber it's immediately fired anyway. In between bursts, the ammo is not in the chamber, it's on the feed tray. So if the gun was so hot that it caused the round to explode it wouldn't go down the barrel, it would just explode on the feed tray and the bolt would probably stay locked to the rear; and even if the bolt went forward there would be no live rounds left on the feed tray to chamber.

On an open-bolt belt-fed machine-gun, a runaway gun is caused by the sear breaking (or just wearing down) and not catching the bolt back after you let go of the trigger. It usually happens when the gun is hot because that means you just put a lot of stress on the sear.
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Last edited by Theohazard; April 16, 2013 at 08:11 PM.
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Old April 16, 2013, 09:23 PM   #29
johnwilliamson062
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I was going to post what Theo did concerning the open bolt. I don't understand how it could be possible in an open bolt gun.

The only way I see it happening is if other parts of the gun were heating up to the point where they failed. Was something expanding to the point where the bolt could ride over a sear that would function in a cold gun? After it cooled the gun returned to functioning? That seems extreme, but I guess it might be possible especially considering claims they tore themselves entirely apart.
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Old April 18, 2013, 01:00 AM   #30
Theohazard
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Quote:
m.p.driver posted
No,a runaway is caused by chambering the next round into a red hot chamber,so it cooks off.
This is completely wrong. On an M60 it is impossible for a cookoff to cause a runaway gun.

Heck; on an open-bolt machine gun like the M60, the round will be fired immediately as soon as it is chambered; how can that cause a runaway gun? Whether the round is fired by the firing pin or the hot chamber, the gun is designed to always fire as soon as the round enters the chamber. Either way, the sear will still catch the bolt and lock it to the rear as soon as you let up on the trigger. The only way to get a runaway gun is if the sear doesn't catch the bolt and lock it to the rear in between bursts, which is usually caused by extreme wear on the sear.

Quote:
m.p.driver posted
Never had a runaway on a cold one,always one that had been operated in a sustained fire mode.
Your M60 ran away because you had just put a lot of wear on the sear, causing to to fail. Shooting it a lot causes wear on the sear, which can cause a runaway gun; shooting it a lot also causes it to get hot. That doesn't mean the gun ran away because it was hot.

The only way I can see the heat alone causing a runaway gun is in the way that johnwilliamson062 describes above. But even if that happened, it's still not a cook-off.

Quote:
m.p.driver posted
Probably many trolls have never fired a m-60,least alone carried one.
Maybe they haven't, but it appears that some of them still know how it works better than you do.
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Old April 21, 2013, 10:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
For the arm chair experts i would recommend downloading FM 3-22.68,and read up on what to do with a runaway.
Gosh...what for? Nobody said a runaway wasn't possible, but a cook-off it isn't.

And for those who may be wondering...a cook-off usually occurs when you have a round stuck in the chamber, for example a "failure to fire". If the chamber is "hot", you may get a cook-off.

Can't speak to the likelihood of this happening with the M240 as I never worked on or taught that weapon but I would assume those procedures are still part of the training program.

IMO, there is much more to running a gun than just being able to shoot it, understanding the cycle of operation, immediate/remedial action procedures, operator maintenance, INSPECTION and FUNCTION CHECK should ALL be known and applied.
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Old April 22, 2013, 12:24 AM   #32
R1145
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I was never a -60 gunner, but I did my share of humpin' the pig. It was a good infantry gun, but it was not soldier-proof. If it was set up right, though, it was reliable and functioned well.

I think the problems began when the Army switched from C-rations to MREs, and we couldn't get the B-3 fruit cans we needed to stick on the feed tray...

The weapon fired from an open bolt, so there could be no cook-off from a loaded gun, but the anecdote cited seems to refer to a gun that had a stoppage with a round stuck in the barrel (Rules 1 and 2...ouch!).

Last edited by R1145; April 22, 2013 at 12:34 AM.
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Old April 22, 2013, 10:00 PM   #33
ClydeFrog
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Guntucky...

If you catch CMT's new "unscripted" TV series: Guntucky about the gun shop near Knob Creek KY, they had a segment with the newer CAR-60 type 7.62x51mm machinegun.

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Old April 25, 2013, 09:44 PM   #34
Lawmaker
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There are still some in service. I shot one in the early 90's off the USS Portland (decommissioned) along with full auto M14's. The M60 was fun to shoot at the ocean at some target we threw out. M14 full auto not so much.
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Old May 21, 2013, 05:30 PM   #35
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I believe the M-60's are also still in service in the Coast Guard.
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Old May 21, 2013, 09:14 PM   #36
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Thanks everyone who answered. It's starting to get personal and we don't need that here at TFL.
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