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Old May 10, 2013, 03:52 PM   #26
csmsss
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Countdown to TPB being on the State Department's list of terrorist organizations...
TPB is far from being an innocent actor. They have facilitated the criminal theft of intellectual property on a massive scale. By that, I'm referring to illegal downloads of copyrighted material.
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Old May 10, 2013, 04:00 PM   #27
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I know what TPB is and what it does, but this is not the place for a copyright discussion. I'm simply mocking archaic arms control treaties and their interpretation by the US Dept of State, and one possible response by State to TPB's indexing of 3d printing models of weapons.
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Old May 10, 2013, 05:32 PM   #28
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My understanding is that DoD "requested" he pull the design down, and he complied, so technically no federal agency has forced anyone to do anything.

That being said, this plan was downloaded, apparently, over 100,000 times. This particular cat is out of this particular bag, regardless of DoD's desires.
That's probably why he complied witht he request. The design is out there already. He accomplished his goal. Just saving himself the hassle of a fight he already won a long time ago anyway.
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Old May 10, 2013, 09:47 PM   #29
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I know the NRA has it's hands full these days, but I doubt (make that- I'm sure, this is the Federal Government) this guy's pockets are deep enough. I hope he is able to secure a pro-bono defense, it will indeed be an interesting precedent.
Actually, this is more of a 1st Amendment issue. While I'd like to see the NRA involved, the core issue here is speech more than it is the RKBA.

To that end, the Electronic Frontier looks to be getting involved, and this could turn into a major 1A challenge.
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Old May 10, 2013, 10:22 PM   #30
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This cat is already out of the bag. It is on the internet already, and it will stay that way. Stopping this sort of thing after the fact is an exercise in futility.

Even though I doubt I will ever print a gun, I think the files are worth finding and downloading for "informational purposes".
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Old May 11, 2013, 05:24 AM   #31
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The genie is out of that bottle.
I heard of this project on 'alternative media' sites well over a year ago, and their stated purpose was just that...

To let the proverbial Genie out of the bottle...

They succeeded...

The first time I recall a printed AR lower being successfully fired, was last July...
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Old May 11, 2013, 06:15 AM   #32
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...Over 100,000 people downloaded the files and they're already hosted on offshore file download sites...
So, someone please post the link to those "offshore" sites so I can download and archive (not actually make the gun), a copy of the data that would 3-D print that gun. Many have stated as above, but no one gives up a link. I want to be part of an effort to thwart the government's unconstitutional effort in this regard via a download as a gesture if civil disobedience in this regard.
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Old May 11, 2013, 06:17 AM   #33
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The toothpaste is out of the tube.
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Old May 11, 2013, 07:17 AM   #34
Tom Servo
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So, someone please post the link to those "offshore" sites so I can download and archive (not actually make the gun), a copy of the data that would 3-D print that gun.
Sorry, but the legality of that would be questionable, so we won't be posting links to the material here.
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Old May 11, 2013, 10:33 AM   #35
Glenn E. Meyer
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Here's a decent analysis of the situation:

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...their-removal/
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Old May 11, 2013, 11:02 AM   #36
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Obviously written by someone who knows nothing about guns.

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The only part of the gun that is not made from a 3-D printer, he said, is the bullet. The instructions suggest using a roofing nail.
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Old May 11, 2013, 11:15 AM   #37
Glenn E. Meyer
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I missed that.

I thought the nail was for the firing pin - isn't that the bullet?

Gee Whiz.
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Old May 11, 2013, 03:42 PM   #38
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Dahermit, here are human-executable instructions for what you asked:

1. Read the first paragraph at the link Progress posted yesterday.

2. Google the name of the site that the article says is still hosting the 3d data.

3. Search that site for 3d gun.

If you don't have a bittorrent client, you'll need that, too. uTorrent has become commercialized, but it's what most people use.
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Old May 11, 2013, 09:26 PM   #39
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Who wants to take bets on how long it is before these liberators and improved models start showing up in places like Syria and China?
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Old May 11, 2013, 11:22 PM   #40
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What about Japan where guns aren't allowed for the every day citizen?
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Old May 11, 2013, 11:31 PM   #41
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I think that when this was suddenly published certain people started having fits. They wanted it down ASAP and when they put the lawyers in a room ITAR is what they came up with. I'm a little surprised the CIA didn't just bring a patent infringement case then claim their patent was classified but still valid.

This is obviously not within the intended scope of ITAR. I think they may regret using it as the case may really roll back ITAR in the end.

Who has a copy of the file? ... ...

In Syria, I doubt it. There are so many guns floating around Syria no one will bother. These machines are energy hogs that take days to print the parts for something like this. Soviet surplus is WAY cheaper and easier. A Luty gun is probably also. Now, in China where guns are somewhat harder to come by maybe, but even then I doubt it.

I'd like to know how the barrel has the tensile strength not to deform when fired. My understanding was that no matter how thick they made the barrel the tensile strength wasn't there.

This project has some silliness in it to me. Why don't they make a Glock that can use a drop in third party barrel?
Why don't they make a one piece bolt action receiver that uses an AR bolt and barrel? Would eliminate TONS of the problems they are having with their lower.
It seems they are more coolguns distributed than defense distributed.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/06/wha...rinted-pistol/
This article has some basic info on the pistol. I didn't realize a decently credible witness had seen it fired multiple times. They messed up the laws on manufacturing and refered to the barrel as "threaded" when i think they meant rifling. I didn't try the link to the defcad site, but I assume it is disabled. I imagine there will be subpoenas flying at some point and all the ips that downloaded from the site will be handed over. I'd prefer not to be on that list(I'm probably already on enough as it is).

After reading the letter they sent I am tempted to send information to that address concerning my own publications and procedures for deciding if my designs are covered by ITAR.
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Old May 13, 2013, 06:47 PM   #42
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The ITAR is a huge mass of regulatory BS. It doesn't just affect the big companies. It affects any company making in any form, any type of item that could be remotely be considered a defensive article. This applies to a small mom and pop shop putting together AR-15's under an FFL, to a munitions manufacturer producing a 100,000 custom loads per year.

In the broadest sense as you read it, it can include any item that a soldier may carry into the field or something that can assist him. It doesn't apply just to tangibles, but also to intellectual property such as plans for a gun, or an encryption software. Little do most people know, they or people they are purchasing items from are violating the ITAR every day.

The enforcement is arbitrary. The DOD decides what to enforce, when they want. If they don't like your company they could trump up charges under the ITAR that could cost you $100,000 per infraction. Thats $100k PER cartridge an already licensed ammunition manufacturer sells without paying off the DOD to get on the ITAR approved list.

How do I know this? I am a licensed manufacturer of ammunition. I have been fighting the DOD since I got my license. Bureaucratic BS.
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Old May 14, 2013, 02:31 AM   #43
torbjork
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Why don't they make a Glock that can use a drop in third party barrel
Copyright infringement? Also, in many places (proper, rifled) barrels are not much easier to get than complete firearms.

They probably just wanted to, as has been said, let the genie out of the bottle. This design is now viral and "everyone" has it, including people who will turn the design inside out and improve it tenfold.
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Old May 14, 2013, 01:44 PM   #44
tyme
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Originally Posted by amathis

The ITAR is a huge mass of regulatory BS. It doesn't just affect the big companies. It affects any company making in any form, any type of item that could be remotely be considered a defensive article. This applies to a small mom and pop shop putting together AR-15's under an FFL, to a munitions manufacturer producing a 100,000 custom loads per year.

In the broadest sense as you read it, it can include any item that a soldier may carry into the field or something that can assist him. It doesn't apply just to tangibles, but also to intellectual property such as plans for a gun, or an encryption software. Little do most people know, they or people they are purchasing items from are violating the ITAR every day.
I heard similar things about ITAR, specifically regarding ammo production, just a few weeks ago. I'm not inclined to research it myself, but now I'm assuming it's true until proven otherwise.

It makes sense. I do know about ITAR and cryptography, and that is an absurd joke. I can easily see how similar regs for physical weapons could be used to cause problems for gun and ammo manufacturers. I didn't think it was, though. Now I do.
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Old May 16, 2013, 11:22 AM   #45
johnwilliamson062
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Also, in many places (proper, rifled) barrels are not much easier to get than complete firearms.
True. I wish they would be more me-centric though.

Someone has redesigned it to use a barrel insert though. I guess the original design has no rifling and is thus an NFA item. Surprising more hasn't been made of that.
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