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Old May 7, 2013, 09:49 PM   #51
Kleab
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I got outbid on the CZ 550 I found, but I'm not giving up yet, ha ha. I found this quote by Jack O'Connor and had to share. I'm excited to track down a rifle in this caliber.

"For almost forty years I've been having an off-and-on romance with a sweet little cartridge known as the 7X57, the 7mm Mauser, and the 7mm Spanish Mauser. There is nothing spetacular about the 7X57. It does not have a big case. Even when the charge is tightly compressed it is possible to get only about 53 grains of 4350 or 4831 powders into the Western 7X57 case, which is roomier than Remington's. This modest little cartridge does not have a belt. It isn't a magnum. It doesn't bellow like a 105 mm howitzer and scramble the brains of the firer. It doesn't shoot through three elk, one moose, two grizzlies, and a forest ranger and then mow down a grove of jack pines on the far side. The hole in the barrel is so small that even a small, thin, underprivileged mouse would have difficulty in entering, and the cartridge itself isn't as long as a maiden's arm.

Yet I think I have seen more game killed with fewer shots from this modest little cartridge than with any other. The explanation for its deadly efficiency does not lie in blinding velocity, in big bullets, in a frightening number of foot pounds of energy. It lies in the light recoil, coupled with the excellent hunting accuracy of so many 7X57s. Those who use it are not afraid of it and, as a consequence, they tend to shoot it well-and to place their shots well. In case no one has told you, the most important factor in killing power is putting that bullet in the right spot."
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Old May 8, 2013, 10:18 AM   #52
SaxonPig
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Old May 8, 2013, 10:20 AM   #53
SaxonPig
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PS: Took that 22F with the new stock to the range on Monday. This is the first group fired. Tweaked the scope to center but then I couldn't do it this good, again.


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Old May 11, 2013, 10:12 PM   #54
Savage99
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The little 7-57 is not optimum for the way I hunt in the forests of VT.

I will take a fast shot at a running deer to get it. It's not easy to get a shot at a buck in VT and a more powerful rifle increases the size of the wound and therefor makes it more deadly.

Here is a statement from above that I disagree with:

"The explanation for its deadly efficiency does not lie in blinding velocity, in big bullets, in a frightening number of foot pounds of energy. It lies in the light recoil, coupled with the excellent hunting accuracy of so many 7X57s. Those who use it are not afraid of it and, as a consequence, they tend to shoot it well-and to place their shots well. In case no one has told you, the most important factor in killing power is putting that bullet in the right spot."

I use the 358 Winchester for that hunting.

To each his own.
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Old May 13, 2013, 10:48 AM   #55
TATER
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Savage99,
And, I have to ask, Why are they running. Are you using dogs?
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Old May 13, 2013, 04:46 PM   #56
Paul B.
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I have to wonder why Savage99 speaks so disparagingly of the 7x57? Not just on this site but he's done so on several other as well. Every time someone mentions the 7x57, he has to bad mouth the round.
Sorry savage but that's truth and you know it.

I've been playing with one 7x57 or another of and on since 1973 when I bought my first one two or three days before deer season. I could only find two boxes of Gederal 175 gr. round nose ammo rated at 2400 FPS. The gun was already sighted in when I checked it out so took it hunting. My wife was with me. About 7:30 AM I shot a nice Mule Deer 3 pointer western count and at the hit, it took off as deer sometimes do. There was very little blood trail and was there was petered out very quickly. My wife and I looked for that deer until it got too dark to look any more. I went out the next morning and finally found what the coyotes had left by the birds. I hunted the rest of the season with a different rifle. A big mistake was selling off the sweet light handly rifle some small British gun maker had put together on a small ring Mauser.
Fast foreward to about 7 or 8 years ago when I bought a Winchester M70 Featherweight push feed in 7x57. Severe arthritis in my right shoulder precludes me from doing much shooting even with the 30-06. No problem when shooting it, it's the day after when I feel it. While cruising a gun shop, I found a few more boxes of that Federal 175 gr. RN ammo so picked some up and ran what little I had left from the 1973 box and comparing it with current manufacture, I found that their advertised 2400 FPS was a pipe dream, at least in my rifles. I pulled a couple of bullets and sectioned them and the jackets, while fairly soft were IMHO way too thick to allow the bullets to open properly on game. Not a bad cartridge, I just used the wrong load.
Currently, along with my M70, I have a Ruger #1A and a custom Mauser built on an FN action. All three rifles are incredibly accurate. All are great fun to shoot and whoever said getting off a second shot with a single shot rifle isn't all that hard; well no it's not. I can keep up doing aimed fire with mine against most average bolt action shooters. Problem is, I haven't had to. To keep thing totally honest, I have only lost two deer in over 50 plus years of hunting. Both times I was carrying a 7x57. You've heard the first and in the second case, again, it was not the gun's/cartridge's fault. I'd shot the deer and was climbing up tp tag and gut it when my foot rolled on some loose rock, plenty of that stuff in the southern Arizona desert, and my foot went one way and the rest of me ther other and I heard a ripping noise and was flat on the ground feeling immense pain. That hunt was 8 years ago and I've walked with a limp ever since. My hunting partners efused to go get the deer as they wanted to get me to a doctor fast. Yeah, I'm still mad. My right knee no longer has a menicus and it still hurts to walk.
As far as reloading the round, I like W760 with the 140 gr. ballistic Tip. I get 2800 FPS with it and no pressure signs. The load is safe in the M70 and Ruger #1 but the Mauser has a match grade chamber and barrel and that one will spit factory ammo out almost 100 FPS faster that the two commercial guns. The only reason the 7x57 is hadicapped is because the liability lawyers like it that way. Oh and BTW, There is a short article in one of the early American Rifleman explaining the problem with the rolling block rifles. Seems some were made with an entirely different headspacing. The chambers are a bit too long for SAAMI standard cartridges. (Page 31 April, 1956 issue if you want to chase it down.)
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Old May 13, 2013, 06:48 PM   #57
cvc944
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Quote:
...Fast forward to about 7 or 8 years ago when I bought a Winchester M70 Featherweight push feed in 7x57.
What a coincidence. I bought the same thing in 2005, just about the same time ago you bought yours. I rushed to get it ready for hunting deer that year in South Carolina. The best week I ever had in that state was the week I carried that rifle. The deer all fell dead, just like I expected them to. The old 7mm Mauser just did one fine job.
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Old May 13, 2013, 07:22 PM   #58
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Apart from some disparaging the 7x57, I am somewhat amused by some disparaging the '93 and '95 Mauser actions. I've been shooting a sporterized '93 7x57 for almost 40 years now. I reload for it with 150gr bullets and a mid-range load of H380. Never had a problem. None, zilch. If a load is worked up in a particular rifle and shows no signs of excessive pressure I don't care if it has one, two or three locking lugs; it is a safe load in that rifle. A good '93 or '95 action is a fine, strong rifle action. I think sometimes people have read that the older Mauser actions are inherently weak. They are not. I've heard the same thing about 30-40 Krags. These are fine firearms and are not 'old technology' or 'weak metallurgy'. An older Mauser in good condition is perfectly safe to shoot and to use to develop a load.
As long as one develops their load in their own rifle and there are no signs of excess pressure it is fine. I've been shooting these 'old' military rifles for a long time now and as long as one uses common sense, there will be no problem. I think people are scared by untruths they have heard or read on the internet or modern loading manuals edited by lawyers. Honestly, has anyone here had - or seen - a good Mauser blow up from any handload listed in a good manual and carefully worked up to? I doubt it.
Maybe things have changed in the 50+ years that I've been shooting. Or maybe I'm just full of crap.
A 7x57 Mauser round pushing a 150gr bullet along at 2500 - 2600 fps ( a moderate load) is a fine 250 yard big game round.

George
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Old May 13, 2013, 10:23 PM   #59
Savage99
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Tater,

You asked:
"And, I have to ask, Why are they running. Are you using dogs?"

Much of my hunting in VT is in hardwoods where I would post and wait for deer to move by.

Once in a while I might be walking or following a track in the snow. When a deer sees me first it might run. If it's a legal buck I will take a shot if there is a safe backstop. Running deer are shot at.

I chose the most powerful cartridge that I could handle for that purpose. It's my belief that a more powerful cartridge will make a larger and deeper wound in the deer and therefore increase my chances.

The 7-57 is not popular here either. Nothing wrong with it, it's just an ordinary old rifle cartridge. No sense to get one as it's not special.

Here the 30-06 is dominant because of course it's the winner of WW One and WW Two! Also the 308 and 270 along with the 30-30 are found here but not the 757.

The old 7-57 does not fit short or long actions well.

To each his own.

We don't hunt deer with dogs.
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Old May 14, 2013, 05:00 AM   #60
HiBC
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Long ago a woman friend of mine needed a deer rifle.She wanted a lever action.I fitted a Savage 99 to her,.300 Savage.Put a Leupold 4x on it with a 12 in duplex.I told her if the deer was smaller than the duplex,it was more than 150 yds and to get closer.
Well,she wasn't much for being told how to do anything.Later,she told me the deer was smaller than the duplex.She leg hit it,then kentucky'd up some and killed it.

I do think that 99 Savage is a fine rifle./..just about exactly as fine as the 7x57 cartridge.

Now,if you neck a 7x57 down then ackley it,you get a .257 Ackley Improved.I have been using one over 20 yrs.I won't give a load,but its a 115 Ballistic tip at 3050.It just plain kills.Farthest antelope,just over 400 yds.Most are about 200.

I have better choices for elk,but,if need be,I'm sure it would kill elk just fine with one condition.I am willing to let the elk walk away if I do not have a shot ,through ribs at heart/lung.

I know of a number of elk that went right down for a 165 gr ballistic tip .308 out to 300 yd.

I do not shoot at moving game.I do not think in terms of "upping my chances on running game" I shoot when I have a steady,precise shot that will bust heart/lung.I lost one antelope when I was 16.that was enough.I'm 61 now.

Not a thing wrong with your .358,fine cartridge.You do your part,it does its part.

I'd suspect a 2700 fps 160 gr Nosler from a 7x57 will blow out the backside of any deer ribcage you hit with it,and,I would expect every bit as much trauma in the wound channel as a 200 gr or 225 gr 358.I bet a stout 175 gr 7mm handload will penetrate anything your .358 will.

I believe the Jack OConnor statement was exactly right.Another gentleman who found the 7x57 effective was Finn Aagard.I think I spelled his name wrong.

If you can shoot,a .250 Savage will kill deer just fine.A Savage 99 .250 Savage

Last edited by HiBC; May 14, 2013 at 05:20 AM.
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Old May 14, 2013, 09:44 AM   #61
TATER
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Savage99,
Got'ya, When you said, It's not easy to get a shot at a buck in VT. "and" Running shots, I thought It might be a regional thing.
though, we have a season in which you can hunt with dogs, I know of no one who does.
I can understand trying to put meat on the table. But, taking a running shot would bother me too much. Heck, It tears me up
If they go 50 yards on a clean shot. I hate to know something is-a-hurt'en out there.
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Old May 14, 2013, 08:42 PM   #62
Paul B.
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"Apart from some disparaging the 7x57, I am somewhat amused by some disparaging the '93 and '95 Mauser actions."

RevGeo, I hear what you're saying. A few years back Kimber imported a bunch of 1893 Spanish Mausers that had been converted to (GASP!) 7.62 NATO. He had the H.P. White Laboratory proof test those rifle to be sure they'd be safe with factory .308 Win. loads, stamped them as .308 Win. and put a synthetic stock on them. They must have sold out fast as I never could find one. From what I hear, the big gripe against the m93 and M95 mausers is they have no provision to handle escaping gas should primer leak. Easy fix would be to have a gunsmith drill two holes in the bolt just like the M98 Mausers have. Wouldn't be a 100 percent perfect solution but would go a long way towards alleviating that problem.
Contrary to what Savage 99 says, I'd have no problem using a 7x57 under the conditions he hunts. A very long time go, I hunted the rain forests of northwestern California and when I say that stuff was thick, jungle would be more appropiate. I've used the 30-30 and 30-06 with specialized handloads fo the 06 back then. If you hit a deer in that stuff and it went much more than 25 yards, it was lost. Never lost a one back then.
If I'd had a 7x57 back then, I would have just used the 170 gr. Sierra round nose and never looked back. My hunting buddy back then said that was all he'd ever use. I still have a few that I'm hoarding but Sierra dropped them a while back and will not make more. Too bad as they've been the most accurate bullet in my 7x57s. These days I use the 175 gr. Hornady's and they shoot quite well. The 140 gr. ballistic Tips ae very accurate in my M70 and Ruger #1A but the load is too hot for he custom Mauser. have to tinker some with that one. I'm halfway through my 7th decade and the harder kicking rifle just aren't all that much fun anymore. I still use them where it's necessary but prefer the lighter kicking Mauser round.
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