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Old May 6, 2013, 08:54 PM   #26
Prometheus
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I don't think it's a bad idea at all.

No matter how religious you are about having a gun within arms reach, every once in a while you may not and if you have the extra gun and a safe why not?

It doesn't have to be a huge safe either. One of those $100 ones would be fine.
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Old May 6, 2013, 09:12 PM   #27
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I was at one of the seminars at which Pincus recommended putting a quick-access safe in a child's room. His reasoning was in essence that if you stage a firearm in a quick-access safe in the child's room, then you don't have to choose between: (a) running to your child's room; and (b) running to your gun. It could very well be that a and b are in opposite directions from where you are when things go sideways.
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Old May 6, 2013, 09:38 PM   #28
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I think some people are thinking about safes in the wrong context.

Fort Knox Pistol

At 9" x 5" x 12" It's not going to take up much room in a closet.
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Old May 6, 2013, 10:16 PM   #29
BigTex308
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Re: Gun safe in child's room - Rob Pincus

Quote:
Originally Posted by rburch View Post
I think some people are thinking about safes in the wrong context.

Fort Knox Pistol

At 9" x 5" x 12" It's not going to take up much room in a closet.
Yeah. Rob isn't saying you need a 36 gun safe in the closet. Wouldn't hurt if you could but a quick access safe to hold 1-2 pistols would suffice.


I stand by my original opinion.



Ike
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Old May 6, 2013, 11:23 PM   #30
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Whats interesting here is no one here has actually admitted to doing it. In my case it would be going in a room with a barely toddler age child. No worries about telling friends, curiosity, etc. Simply put it high enough in the closet.
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Old May 7, 2013, 12:34 AM   #31
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Full Context

Thanks for the support and the Conversation guys... it's been an interesting 48 hours!

Here's the full context of the advice I gave... please spread this link around where you see the issue being discussed. THANKS!

Staging a Gun in your Kid's Room might be a Great Idea!

-RJP
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Old May 7, 2013, 04:26 AM   #32
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Obviously it depends on the age of the kid, but something up high and discrete wouldn't be all that intrusive.
I'd agree that it wouldn't be a great idea to have something they could potentially get into when they're at that exploratory age, but I think some of you are underestimating how disinterested kids can be too. If it's not presented as something exciting and it's been there for awhile, it would probably just fade into the background.
But, regardless, I would think you'd want a more child proof lock than the traditional 4-wheel luggage lock. Something with a fingerprint scanner that you could wire into the the house would be about ideal.

I do get why people are uneasy about the idea though. Kids getting a hold of guns and unintentionally shooting themselves or their friends is a pretty regular occurrence. So, keeping a gun in your kids room does - at face value - seem kind of like tempting fate. There are safe ways it could be managed, but it flies in the face of the basic "keep away from children" mantra.
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Old May 7, 2013, 04:48 AM   #33
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If it's not presented as something exciting and it's been there for awhile, it would probably just fade into the background.
Put a box in front of anyone and eventually they will want to know what's inside of it. That's human nature.
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Old May 7, 2013, 05:16 AM   #34
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you could show them.
I've never been big on keeping things secret from kids.
My kid knows what guns are, and knows not to touch them. He doesn't own toys that look like guns.
I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but I'd think you could show them what goes in the safe, tell them it was stuff for emergencies, lock it, and tell them not to tell their friends or get into it on their own.
Like Rob said, if you can't trust your kids not to break into a safe you keep in their room, you can't trust them not to break into a safe you keep in yours - and you probably have bigger issues than that.
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Old May 7, 2013, 07:08 AM   #35
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Isn't he a spokesman for Gunvault and isn't that one of their products on display?

I keep my home defense handgun in a quick access handgun safe mounted to my bed frame. If I am awake, I have at least my P3AT in my pocket or my G26 on my hip.

I don't really see the need for staging guns in my home.
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Old May 7, 2013, 09:36 AM   #36
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I see where Rob is coming from, and I understand it. But I believe (if you're reading this Rob, please correct me if I'm wrong) you are an advocate of carrying in the house. I carry when I'm home. The only times I don't have a gun physically on me are 1) When I'm asleep, 2) When I'm changing clothes, 3) When I'm taking a shower. And in all of those circumstances, there is a gun within arms reach.

If you want to make sure you have a gun where you can get it, the best, and most secure place is on you. The kids can't get to it, a bad guy can't stumble upon it or find it, and it's within reach no matter where you are. Even with some of the drawbacks of carrying all the time, it seems like this is the best option.

I'm with the people who say that those electronic handguns safes aren't a good way to keep kids away. There's video online of a 3 or 4 year old getting into them without even using the code. Some have a simple mechanism that will fail if the safe is dropped a couple inches, or even struck hard enough. Others have holes in the side where a straightened paper clip (with a hook or something on the end) can be inserted and the locking mechanism can be accessed. If a 4 year old can do it, imagine what a 12 year old can do?

Of course, there are some safes that are nearly impossible to get into without punching in the code, but why risk it? Keep a gun on you. Keep the rest in your primary safe. Easiest/quickest access, most secure.
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Old May 7, 2013, 10:15 AM   #37
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I've deleted some posts. Discussion of people's marriages is off-topic.
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Old May 7, 2013, 10:18 PM   #38
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Of course, there are some safes that are nearly impossible to get into without punching in the code, but why risk it? Keep a gun on you. Keep the rest in your primary safe. Easiest/quickest access, most secure.
This may be the best option, but it's not something everyone is willing to do.

A quality safe is a good 2nd option. in those cases.
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Old May 7, 2013, 11:59 PM   #39
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This may be the best option, but it's not something everyone is willing to do.
With great power comes great responsibility. Guns provide an individual with great power. Too many people take it for granted. I respect Rob Pincus very much, and have learned a lot from his videos, but if it comes between keeping a loaded firearm (locked up even) in my kids room, or keeping it on myself, and all the others in the "big safe" that's a no brainer. I'll keep it on me. Why? Because having a gun for HD is an incredible responsibility. Kids are WAY smarter than we give them credit. If they want in that safe, they'll get in. Then guess who's responsibility it is if something happens? No thank you. It's not a burden to have a gun on me all the time.
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Old May 8, 2013, 12:02 AM   #40
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The more I think about this, the more I like the idea. I'm not walking around the house armed all the time if for no other reason that there is going to be a grabby toddler around. While this might be a golden opportunity to practice gun retention I don't think it's a good idea for me. If I get cornered in his room having a way to defend all of us is highly appealing
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Old May 8, 2013, 09:32 AM   #41
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In reading through this discussion, and the various reports of Rob's remarks, I'm struck by the fact that no one has really talked about the kid himself having access to the gun.

I know that from the time I turned 12 onward, I had access to my Mossberg 590 and my part in the event of any break in, was to collect my sister, and hole up in our shared bathroom and wait for either Pop or the police to come get us.

And part of that was because of exactly what Rob was talking about, my sister and I's bedrooms were on the opposite side of the house from the master bedroom.

I think the flak that Rob is getting over this is a fine example of the growing divide in America in those who take personal responsibility for themselves and thier family and those who expect someone else to manage everything.
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Old May 8, 2013, 10:28 AM   #42
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I didn't want to talk about whether a child should or should not have access to the gun because I believe that's a subject that the parent should make the call on. I've met 6 year olds who were more responsible with firearms than many 12 year olds. This was about the subject of putting a gun within relatively easy reach of a child. If something tragic were to happen, do you think the prosecutor will give a pass to those who put a gun in a child's room because they thought the child was mature enough? Not a chance, they're going to hang that person out to dry.

My parents would have called me a responsible child. They never really had firearms in the house, but I knew what to do if I came across a gun. But they still fascinated me. I had a buddy in high school who also would be considered responsible. He had his own .243 that he hunted with by himself all the time. That didn't stop him from figuring out the combo to his Dad's gun safe and showing me all the guns they had. I don't ever remember doing a chamber check on any of those guns, yet I held each one. That also didn't stop my friend from raiding his dad's stash of black powder (also under lock and key) and us playing with it. I distinctly remember one incident that left the garage full of smoke, and him and I running out coughing. Some of the stuff we did was really stupid, and we were "responsible" teenagers. Our parents never new the stuff we did, and we're very lucky we have all our fingers still, and didn't put any new holes in things that didn't have holes before.

If you feel you need to put a gun in a child's room, do what you feel you need to do. My kids are 4 and 1, so it would be trivial to put a safe on a top shelf in the closet and they wouldn't be able to get to it, at least not for a couple years. But as a parent, it's my responsibility to keep my kids safe. I don't trust a small, cheap safe to keep my kids out. They'll figure it out eventually. Do what you need to do to keep your family safe. I know the best way for me to do that is to keep guns out of their reach (for now) and prevent unsupervised access as much as possible. The easiest way to do that is keep all my guns in the floor safe, and a gun on me at all times.
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Old May 8, 2013, 12:00 PM   #43
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Gaerek represents my view as well.
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Old May 8, 2013, 01:46 PM   #44
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Carrying in the home is obviously going to make you better prepared, but I recognize that it isn't realistic for most people. It is like saying that Carrying a Glock 17 makes you more prepared than carrying a Glock 26, but I know that most people will opt for a smaller gun for CCW.

Here's a video clip from a program I did yesterday:

Thom Hartmann Show
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Old May 8, 2013, 01:50 PM   #45
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Quote:
Carrying in the home is obviously going to make you better prepared, but I recognize that it isn't realistic for most people. It is like saying that Carrying a Glock 17 makes you more prepared than carrying a Glock 26, but I know that most people will opt for a smaller gun for CCW.
I have my gun on me when I'm home 24/7. Even if I'm in the shower it's within arms reach of me. I don't see a better time to be more prepared for the fight.

I've been known to carry a Glock 17 I carry a Glock 19 now. It's an all around gun thankfully. Spare Glock 17 mags all around the place too.
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Old May 8, 2013, 02:11 PM   #46
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Carrying in the home is obviously going to make you better prepared, but I recognize that it isn't realistic for most people. It is like saying that Carrying a Glock 17 makes you more prepared than carrying a Glock 26, but I know that most people will opt for a smaller gun for CCW.
I completely understand what you're saying Rob. But for most people, they're making a decision based on convenience, not off of practicality. In your example, it's more convenient to carry a G26. It's smaller, easier to hide. But, the G19 is more practical. It's not that much harder to conceal, but you get the benefits of a longer barrel, bigger (meaning easier to hold) grip, and more ammo.

The same thing with hiding a gun in the kids room (and every room for that matter) vs. carrying at home. It's more practical in almost every possible way to carry at home. You are always, no matter what, within arms reach of your weapon. It's secure, in the way that no one is going to be able to get to it easily. All your other guns are secure, so there's no easy way for an unauthorized user (kid, burglar, stupid friend, etc) to gain access. It's more convenient not having to carry. You can wear your strechy pants, and you don't have that 2-3lbs on your belt/pocket/whatever.

If you're compromising security for convenience, that's your choice. It's not a wrong choice. Carrying a handgun is compromising security for convenience. If it was convenient, I'd carry a long gun, because it's more effective in almost every possible way. But last I checked, no one has made an IWB holster for an AR.

Having said all that, I'm glad you created some controversy. I'm not against keeping a gun in the kids room, but it's a choice that has to be seriously considered and well thought out. For my purposes, it's not that inconvenient to carry a gun in the house.
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Old May 9, 2013, 10:00 AM   #47
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This may be a bit off topic, but I think it has relevance. I haven't read the article that is the basis for this thread, but where I grew up the legal age limit for hunting was 12 years old, and most boys had rilfes and shotguns tucked into bedroom closets and bedroom gun racks/cabinets from that age on. Many or most of them had siblings around the house also. It was a non-issue, and no one that I knew ever got hurt, was injured by an intruder who figured out where the guns were located, nor did any of them ever behave negligent or criminally themselves. The only thing that seems to have changed in the years since IMO is the mentality of the country, and the maturity of its inhabitants. Not to mention a devaluing of human life, except for the lives of criminals who seem to be provided with every excuse and break, while law abiding citizens are subject to ever increasing legislation.
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Old May 9, 2013, 01:58 PM   #48
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My dad did this

As a matter of fact the guns were stored in the closet in my bedroom. Every one of them except the DW .357 mag dad kept loaded. Dad kept the majority of the ammo in his room or in a metal cabinet in the garage. They were in that closet before I was even born and are still kept there to this day.

I was taught the right way and never touched one out of turn. I understood the conciquences if I did and the temptation was never there. My brother and I had friends over and it was never an issue not even once. Dad also kept a loaded 12 ga cruiser ready in a weird closet in his bedroom just behind his bedroom door. I had never seen it until the night we had a burgler.

Dad and I heard the dog loosing it and out of seemingly no where he handed me a mossy 500 that I had never seen before, racked it and said 'its just like yours". Nothing bad came of that night except for an idiot tearing himsef to pieces in the multaflora roses known to our faimly as "wait a minute bushes". But it proves two points.

1. I never knew there was a second gun in the house until he told me where he hid it.

2. It is perfectly acceptable to keep a firearm in a childs bedroom without it turning into a catastrophy.

Rob was advocating keeping a second shotgun in an extra safe in the childs bedroom. While I wouldn't keep my primary there it would be a good second options.

With Kind Regards, Vermonter

ETA: During the above incident I was 19 and home from college for the older brothers wedding. He did not involve a child in an HD incident.

Also has anyone seen this http://buff.ly/194bxQF

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Old May 20, 2013, 07:15 PM   #49
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I believe a gun in every room is ideal. You don't get to choose where you are when an intruder enters. As long as its secured in a safe (or a good hidey hole), there is always one near at hand.
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Old May 23, 2013, 02:28 PM   #50
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rburch .."Mine too, but what if you have to go to the bathroom?"

I don't have any kids at home, so I can't speak to the value of having a safe in the kid's room. But I do keep a handgun in the cabinet over the toilet so I'm never caught with my pants down ... I'm betting others do the same ...
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