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Old April 30, 2013, 08:40 AM   #1
.50cal packer
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In your opinion???

Since the newer made Tokarev ammo "S&B, Wolf, etc..." is a ghost, and nobody has a clue when it will come in ; In you opinion, what is the best shooting surplus currently available? At that, even I'm aware that supply is limited. But my newly acquired Tok is chomp-in' at the bit to be fired. I was able to find green tracer ammo, but I'm not willing to pay $50 for 15 shells, that glow... Any help is greatly appreciated, and Thanks in advance..
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Old April 30, 2013, 03:38 PM   #2
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154 views, and not a single opinion? Wow...
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Old April 30, 2013, 06:42 PM   #3
James K
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It is also known as 7.62x25 and .30 Mauser, though the latter is a bit lighter load than most of the Russian ammo. It might be scarce at the moment, but my local dealer has it under both names.

Jim
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Old May 2, 2013, 09:52 AM   #4
kilimanjaro
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.30 Mauser is available at SGAmmo.com, PRVI makes it, good stuff. I'm not so sure it's the same cartridge for a Tokarev, though.

Reloading at home is becoming a lot more popular, as folks discover that EVERYTHING is hard to find.
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Old May 2, 2013, 10:11 AM   #5
mapsjanhere
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It's exactly the same cartridge (the Soviets just didn't like the name). Most surplus is loaded slightly stronger than the original WWI area 30 Mauser ammo due to the widespread use in submachine guns.
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Old May 2, 2013, 12:36 PM   #6
Mike Irwin
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"It's exactly the same cartridge (the Soviets just didn't like the name)."

Mmmmmm....

Maybe.

Soviet-era cartridges show some dimensional differences from German cartridges, and a number of references, including Cartridges of the World, show those variations.

Two theories are that they were simply manufacturing variations brough about by variations, wear, age, etc., in manufacturing equipment, or that they were redimensioned to better suit equipment that the Soviets had on hand.

That said, it's almost always the case that the two rounds are interchangeable.
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Old May 3, 2013, 08:11 AM   #7
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Same round.

What was the Tracer ammo you were offered, old Russian or new Gunshow?
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Old May 3, 2013, 04:19 PM   #8
.50cal packer
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johnnyC,
The tracer ammo was a new run. It was available at ammotogo.com. It appears that they are currently out of it as well.

As far as the reloading goes... I'm set up for it. Problem is I don't have the components to do it. IE. cases, powder, primer and bullets. I'm s.o.l. when it comes to reloading that. As all are aware, they are just as hot or even a hotter commodity.
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Old May 3, 2013, 11:49 PM   #9
Mike Irwin
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One other thing...

Russian made ammo generally clocked in at between 50 and 100 fps slower than German ammo.
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Old May 3, 2013, 11:54 PM   #10
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"Same round."

Jonny,

Donnelly's book, as well as others, show enough variations between the two cartridges to make me think that they are not, in fact, the same cartridge.
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Old May 4, 2013, 10:24 AM   #11
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Mike, pick any 10 different .45 ACP rounds, or .22 rounds, or .30-06 rounds, from 10 different manufacturers, and check/compare their measurements. You'll probably find the same degree of variation.
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Old May 4, 2013, 01:47 PM   #12
Mike Irwin
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variation is one thing, but there are a number of measurements that are substantially different.

the surest way to figure it out though, would be to take chamber casts of the various firearms for which these cartridges were chambered.

it has always been my understanding that the German round will go into any Soviet gun, but the opposite is often not true.

I would also think that if they were the same cartridge early editions of cartridges of the world, edited by Frank Barnes, would so indicate, but they do not. they list them as two separate, distinct cartridges.

I will have to look again and see how my early COTW handles the .380-200.
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Old May 5, 2013, 07:58 AM   #13
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I would not use COTW as my be all-end all source for cartridge information.
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Old May 5, 2013, 10:05 PM   #14
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I'm certainly not, Jonny.

I'm also using physical dimension differences that, at least to me, are outside the normal "slop" parameters that one would expect of the same basic cartridge made in different factories.
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Old May 29, 2013, 02:57 PM   #15
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or you could just load your own, by forming the cases from 223 cases
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