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Old April 24, 2013, 09:14 AM   #51
kraigwy
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Well it turns out it wasn't reloading powders.

Fox news is reporting now that the explosive propellants were from fireworks the bad guy bought at Lock and Load Fireworks.

Of course that doesn't mean guns and reloading components still wont get the blame.
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Old April 24, 2013, 09:23 AM   #52
JimDandy
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Or that that will get widespread reporting.

Last edited by Vanya; April 24, 2013 at 10:09 AM. Reason: removed off-topic comment.
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Old April 24, 2013, 09:34 AM   #53
mayosligo
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After Boston is our reloading hobby at serious risk?

Last report I saw they think he got the powder from a large order of fireworks in New Hampshire.
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Old April 24, 2013, 10:11 AM   #54
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I've deleted some posts. The history of the war with Iraq is off-topic for this thread.
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Old April 24, 2013, 10:22 AM   #55
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The details may have been, but not the gist of the point- Meida Perception Study the last section of the previously linked article- that incorrect reporting early tends to stick in the public's memory, regardless of subsequent developments and/or retractions.

Freedom of the Press is a great thing. And this phenomenon, as well as the media's affect on the Logical Fallacy of Misleading Vividness mentioned in another linked blog are the price we pay for that Freedom and it's benefits.

These will both have an effect on the danger to our reloading hobby. People are still calling for taggants in reloading powder. We're seeing legislation to put more than a 15 cent tax on hand loaded rounds, compared to a 5 cent tax on factory rounds.
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Old April 24, 2013, 02:18 PM   #56
tulsamal
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The report I saw on the fireworks speculated that they only got half a pound of powder or so from them. Maybe that flash powder was the primary ignition for something else like regular black powder?
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Old April 24, 2013, 02:27 PM   #57
manta49
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In answer to the question orgnishions here have being making bombs for decades using various ingredients black powder included. But black powder shooting is popular and black powder is available permit required. So if you can get it in the UK i can't see there being a problem in America.
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Old April 24, 2013, 03:11 PM   #58
KBP
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Reloading at risk?

If you are going to be accurate and technical. Modern smokeless powder is NOT an explosive. It is a propellant. Gasoline is an explosive. If they want to ban something, Ban gasoline.
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Old April 24, 2013, 04:37 PM   #59
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Quote:
Modern smokeless powder is NOT an explosive. It is a propellant. Gasoline is an explosive.
Gasoline is a flammable liquid, not an explosive. Also, while used in a cartridge of ammunition, smokeless powder is a propellant, its also considered a flammable solid, and may actually be treated as a class b explosive if you transport over 100lbs in a commercial shipment, last I heard. So I would be careful with blanket statements about what is, or is not this catagory or that catagory. An item may be used for something it was not designed for and then the definition of where that item falls would be expanded.
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Old April 24, 2013, 10:41 PM   #60
KBP
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After Boston is our reloading hobby at serious risk?

Fishing Cabin; Gasoline in its vapor state is explosive! Cars would not run if it didn't detonate. One gallon of gas in its "vapor" state has the explosive power of 5 sticks of dynamite! Gas fumes EXPLODE if confined!
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Old April 25, 2013, 07:25 PM   #61
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Certain mixtures of air and gasoline can be explosive although in a car it is meant to burn quickly not detonate.
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Old April 25, 2013, 09:48 PM   #62
Fishing_Cabin
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If your want to argue about what can be explosive, I can name tons of household things that can become explosive at some point. Gasoline still has to be between the LEL and UEL in order to explode. Unlike smokeless powder which has its own oxidizer. Gasoline still needs not only oxygen, but still needs to be between the LEL and UEL in order to explode.

Quote:
Cars would not run if it didn't detonate.
I guess I need to tell my mechanic that the knock I heard, which he said was bad, is actually a good thing now. My entire life I thought an engine ignited, and burned gasoline, instead of detonating it.

If we are going to win the debate on not having restrictions on reloading components we need to do so in a proper fashion. If we, as the firearms community want to keep tossing out other things that may explode, I can only imagine the soundbite for the low information voter.

(My thoughts on such a soundbite) "Those against banning smokeless powder want to talk about the dangers of everything exploding! So lets take some examples. We (our government) doesnt want to ban your 4 year old childs cupcakes at his birthday party because the sugar in the icing has a remote chance of causing a dust explosion in a factory. Neither do we want to ban the gasoline for your car to take your 4 year old child to his birthday party. We want to target a small type of item. Smokeless powder! Just look at the MSDS put out by the companies producing the smokeless powder! Just look at it! Even they, themselves call it explosive! But yet those on the otherside think we should ban your 4 year olds birthday party instead..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by allientpowder.com
Section 3. Hazard Identification
Emergency Overview:
DANGER! EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE - EXPLOSIVE.
ACCIDENTAL FIRE OR EXPLOSION IS LIKELY TO CAUSE SEVERE INJURY OR DEATH.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/downloads/msds/Unique.pdf

I think saying that other types of common things can explode is chasing a unicorn. If we want to win this battle, we need to come up with facts to counter the suppossed risk. Just saying "hey this or that will explode in the right circumstance" doesnt do it. Ok, so it explodes. So a small explosion is worse then a large BLEVE? It depends on the amount and the exact circumstances. Just saying this or that can explode, and explosions are bad only gives the low information voters a reason to be against it.

Last edited by Fishing_Cabin; April 25, 2013 at 10:34 PM.
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