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Old April 22, 2013, 01:58 PM   #1
sfmedic
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what is it I'm feeling when my locking lug cracks?

was doing some transition drills today and the drill was to let my long gun go dry then drop it and finish up my lane with my short gun (Beretta 92fs) .

do that no problem. finished the last target with a double tap and holstered the weapon. I remember thinking the last shot was weird and didnt feel quite right.

got to my next lane (steel racks > mag changes) presented and nothing went for the ftf iad and slide was frozen

knew what it was right away and switched out the locking lug right away.

I remember the last time i cracked a lug it was the same deal but in the middle of multiple targets.

other than just feeling weird what is it? is it just making a weird noise?
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Old April 22, 2013, 05:09 PM   #2
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I'd be feeling for a different brand of pistol that I could depend on.
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Old April 22, 2013, 05:27 PM   #3
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A Beretta is like a lot of cars. You just swap out certain parts BEFORE they crap out on you. If the Army armorers are doing their job, they do it on schedule in the military. Beretta changed the design or metallurgy on the newer and replacement parts, and the occurrence is less frequent. Some of you will disregard the Beretta, choosing another type of pistol for that or other reasons, but properly maintained (like a British Bentley or Triumph), it runs pretty well.
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Old April 22, 2013, 06:02 PM   #4
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Resentment followed by shear Horror
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Old April 22, 2013, 06:37 PM   #5
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That Beretta problem they've had for 40+ years !!! BTDT !
I don't know why other guns with similar systems don't seem to have the problem ,like the P38.Maybe they never figured out that there is a difference in pressure between 9x19 and 9 Glisenti .
But not to worry , they now have a replacement kit !
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Old April 23, 2013, 06:30 AM   #6
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Change out the recoil spring every 3-3.5k (recommended is 5k). And, you lessen the likelihood of the locking block cracking - GREATLY.

Also, the recommended life change of the block is to be changed every 20k. I've seen way too many reports of them break just a few rounds north of 20k. I say - do it at 15k.

Once a gun breaks one - it seems to be more likely to break them in the future... As someone else - preventative maintenance on the springs could have solved this
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Old April 23, 2013, 07:33 AM   #7
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Perhaps 15K rounds with the new Beretta locking blocks. But, with the older ones, they recommended that they be changed around 3500 rounds.

Personally, I can't imagine going through two locking block failures and keeping that particular gun. I ditched my Taurus PT99 (older model; old style locking block) after it shattered the ears off of the locking block. If the slide freezes (like it did on mine) the recommended fix for this is cutting the barrel to get the slide off. If you keep trying to work the slide free you will gouge up the soft aluminum frame with the shattered steel parts.

By now, there there are so many reports of broken locking blocks that it should be apparent that this design is seriously flawed. I know of no other gun that you MUST replace a small part otherwise you run the risk of destroying your gun if it fails. BTW, my locking block (again - Taurus, and old style) failed after only about 500 rounds. I'm sure some will last "forever"; but the fact is they just fail when they decide to fail.

Someone, please explain to me what it is about the Beretta 92 that keeps people coming back for more - I just don't get it???
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Old April 23, 2013, 08:57 AM   #8
Mike Irwin
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I suggest listening to a Sarah Vaughn record...

Broken Hearted Locking Lugs Melody.

It's quite catchy.
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Old April 23, 2013, 01:01 PM   #9
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3rd Generation locking blocks are rated for 20k rounds. Now, the Taurus locking blocks are not rated that high.

I have been into Berettas a while, and have several. I disagree that there is something wrong with the design. Most people repeat stories told to them by someone else, with no real knowledge.

Change the springs - gun lasts a while. Many people just shoot it, and then complain that it broke - with ZERO spring maintenance being done.
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Old April 23, 2013, 03:12 PM   #10
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yea Im getting about 15k between locking blocks

its still a reliable gun - Im not a collector i shoot for a living and stick with what i know - Beretta. I dont see a need for another type of weapon.

I'll use whats available if its all the "client" has but I'll snag a beretta as soon as i can. Ive used Glocks a lot but never liked them. Not saying anything is wrong with them - just dont like them
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Old April 24, 2013, 10:23 AM   #11
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I've flattened factory firing pins on 1911's so that they jammed in the firing pin retainer, just from everyday use. I've cracked firing pin retainers in 1911's and Browning Hi Powers, also causing failures to fire. I have seen cracked polymer frames in a couple different makes, and a cracked slide on a P38. I have cracked a frame on a 1970's steel Colt 1911, and seen the hammer spur fall off the hammer on a S&W 29. My brother's Ruger Redhawk broke something internally with less than 100 rounds through it. Guns are tools, and they wear, and they sometimes break or break parts. Nothing lasts forever. AK's might have a 100K round life. Are you going to sell your FN FAL just because it won't last as long as an AK? Are you going to rid yourself of your Les Baer or Ed Brown just because it won't last as long as a Glock? If you like a Beretta, do the maintenance. Same with a Glock. Switch out the recoil spring unit every 5-6K.
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Old April 24, 2013, 10:50 AM   #12
sfmedic
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just the numbers for skans :-) and yes I am hard on my Berettas Lately I have been averaging 300 - 600 rounds a day on the poor things and I havent cleaned them lately

• The average reliability of all M9 pistols tested at Beretta is 17,500 rounds without a stoppage.

• During one test of twelve pistols fired under Army supervision, M9 pistols shot 168,000 rounds without a single malfunction.

• The Beretta 9mm pistol was the most reliable of all pistols tested in the 1984 competition which resulted in the award of the M9 contract to Beretta.

• The average durability of Beretta M9 slides is over 35,000 rounds, the point at which U.S. Army testing ceases.

• The average durability of M9 frames is over 30,000 rounds. The average durability of M9 locking blocks is 22,000 rounds.
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
I've flattened factory firing pins on 1911's so that they jammed in the firing pin retainer, j
What's the fix for that? Do you need to grind the barrel into two pieces to get the gun apart in order to fix that problem? That is the "fix" for a broken locking block, where it freezes up the slide. Oh, you could keep working that slide until you force it open - then you can replace your soft alloy frame after you've damaged it.

Guns break, parts break, I get it. But, where certain parts are known to fail routinely that can require that the barrel be cut in half as part of the "fix"..........that's just a poor design. This is why Beretta redesigned the locking block! They addressed a bad design flaw in their 92 series guns. However, to my knowledge, Taurus hasn't.
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Old April 24, 2013, 01:47 PM   #14
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I think a big problem with the occurrence of broken locking blocks in Beretta's is the lack of maintenance like Shipwreck said and not switching out recoil springs when needed. Not only does a weak recoil spring put more abuse on the locking block but the whole slide and barrel assembly. Also you want to keep the locking block well lubricated, and I prefer grease for this application. Throw in the fact that this is one of the most widely used pistols ever in military and law enforcement around the world you are going to hear about failure rates more often than other model pistols. Alot of these stories of broken locking blocks are over a decade old with the old style locking blocks.

Quote:
Someone, please explain to me what it is about the Beretta 92 that keeps people coming back for more - I just don't get it???
It's DA/SA which I prefer, decently priced, extremely accurate and reliable, part's are widely available and dirt cheap compared to other handguns, and I think they are just damn good looking pistols. Keep it well lubricated, change recoil and trigger spring every 5000 rounds or so (and the springs are cheap I have about 3 of each), and the Beretta should run fine for years to come.

Also I live in Massachusetts and can only buy pre-ban high capacity mags. Pre-ban Beretta 92 15rd mags happen to pop up every now and then and I got my hands on 3 of them so that right there automatically draws me towards the pistol.
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Old April 24, 2013, 04:46 PM   #15
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When E. Langdon was campaigning Berettas in competition with a lot of shooting, he changed the recoil spring at 5000, all springs at 10000, and the locking block at 20000.
A guy here got 35000 with no replacement, then his slide cracked... on a Taurus.
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Old April 25, 2013, 08:58 AM   #16
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I have a 96 at my bedside. I own 1911's, revolvers, other SA's but IMO the 96 has the reputation and has shown me that its very reliable. Not to mention, IMO the 40 is the round I want when my family counts on it.
I love the weight, look and feel of the weapon. I only have a few thousand rounds through mine, but I have never done any maintenance other than clean and lube. After reading this I will probably grab a wolf spring kit and replace them just to be on the safe side.
When my buddy wanted his first handgun, I told him to pickup a 92 before he buys anything. Thats what he ended up with and its also been 100% out of the box through his first 1000 or so.
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Old April 25, 2013, 09:48 AM   #17
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beretta 92

Everyone has their own opinion(prejudice) toward different makes and models of all firearms.Here's mine. Beretta finely won the trials for a new military pistol in '85 after these tests were tuned for their benefit.It took two trials as I recall(could have been more)before Beretta came out on top.Shortly after its adoption our military stopped the use of this new pistol due to slide stop breakage.We went about a year without an official service pistol until Beretta could rectify the problem.I'm not a fan of the 9mm,unless loaded UP. None of my defense loads (HOT) would be allowed to be fired in this Beretta.As I stated,my opinion.
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Old April 25, 2013, 10:03 AM   #18
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Interesting pictures and poll on locking block failures:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show....php?p=3827060
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Old April 25, 2013, 11:37 AM   #19
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I've seen that poll and wouldn't hold any weight towards it. I certainly don't buy the 3 votes for locking block still good after 75,000 rounds, nor do I buy the 3 votes for locking block broke in under 1000. Anyone can come on this site and click vote on a poll, and with the amount of people who like to hate on Beretta's I am betting a good deal of those votes are skewed, and that goes the other way around for Beretta fan boys too.
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Old April 25, 2013, 12:20 PM   #20
Skans
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I find that poll and thread interesting - hadn't seen it before. But, what I find more interesting in that thread are the pictures of the locking blocks. Look at them! Do these look like quality parts? They look rough cast, poorly finished and you can visibly see variations in the dimensions. It does not appear as though this critical part is machined from a billet of high quality tool steel.

FWIW, the pictures are of the old locking block, and so is the Poll. I haven't inspected one of the redesigned locking blocks.

Last edited by Skans; April 25, 2013 at 12:34 PM.
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Old April 25, 2013, 05:49 PM   #21
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To all who dis the Beretta, for Pete's Sake, if the fear of a locking block on a 92 scares you that much, buy a different pistol. There are too many great guns out there. I will not be selling my Beretta, but I own and use other pistols, too. I just don't fear the locking block thing.
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Old April 25, 2013, 06:17 PM   #22
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Oil it! Oil it! Oil it!!!!!
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Old April 26, 2013, 08:43 AM   #23
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BTW, I should have mentioned that my Beretta was the earlier 1951 , SA, Single column mag.Bought used I have no idea how many rounds fired.They certainly knew of the problems in 1970 .My friend asked about it at a gun show [after discussing it with me ] .The dealer turned and walked away without responding !!!
I sold the gun but warned the buyer about the problem .I had ,BTW, found that a heavier BHP spring wouild fit so I put one in . My first solution was to make , by hand ! a locking piece , of 4340 steel ,strong tough steel ,but that too broke fairly quickly.So I assumed the problem to be weak springs.
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Old April 26, 2013, 12:16 PM   #24
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I had 9 until a month or two ago. I sold off my compacts and railed models...

Had this:






Now have this:




But, I will be getting a 7th one next month.

Do you think I am worried and fretting over locking blocks?
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Old April 26, 2013, 10:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
other than just feeling weird what is it? is it just making a weird noise?
Generally the broken block locks up the gun. That means that the slide doesn't recoil separately as normal, instead the gun recoils as a unit. That would feel significantly different than a normal ejection/feeding cycle with the slide moving somewhat independently of the frame.
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