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View Poll Results: Do You Support Any Gun Control Laws?
None, the 2nd Amendment rules 165 75.34%
Yes,there must be some restriction's 45 20.55%
Undecided 9 4.11%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 20, 2013, 04:50 PM   #126
745SW
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I do not support any gun control, period. The anti gun people want the entire enchilada but they know they can’t have it with a single bite.
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Old April 20, 2013, 09:06 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Actually, until 1934, you could get Thompson submachine guns in hardware stores. You could even order them through the mail.
The way it still should be.
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Old April 21, 2013, 07:43 PM   #128
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Some crimes are so heinous that the offenders should have their rights taken away FOREVER. Murderers, pedophiles and rapists shouldn't be allowed to have firearms because they're sick in the head/mentally ill and many cannot be rehabilitated. These people shouldn't be out on the street let alone allowed to own firearms but they are.
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Old April 21, 2013, 09:10 PM   #129
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A couple of weeks ago when Federal background checks seemed to be in inevitability, I thought about it and sort of said "okay I can live with that". Then one of the anti gun people was interviewed about it on CNN and she said " we have to remember it's a marathon not a sprint". This to me implies that the endgame for the anti-gun people is the confiscation of all guns. Given that this is their agenda I'm opposed to any type of legislation.
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Old April 22, 2013, 12:01 PM   #130
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^ Yea, that sucks, I wish their common sense would push through at least to the point that they understand and acknowledge that in the end the career criminals would be the ones who kept their guns anyway.

In the end, the only real reason I'd go in for gun show and private party background checks is because we already require it for retail sales, it makes little sense not to require it elsewhere. A gun is a gun, it doesn’t matter what type of sale it is.
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Old April 22, 2013, 12:03 PM   #131
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I go the other way, Dashunde, and think we should ditch the system, particularly since prosecutions are so rare.
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Old April 22, 2013, 12:48 PM   #132
Dashunde
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Perhaps. But I wonder how many sales to felons or "undesirables" its stopped so far.
Are there any published stats on its sale-stoppage effectiveness?

If its filled out truthfully and denied is there anything to prosecute in the first place?
I've always thought it was about lying on the form, no?
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Old April 22, 2013, 01:48 PM   #133
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I think for a felon to attempt to purchase is a crime, in itself, even if they fill out the form accurately.

Meanwhile, we've discussed this in a couple other threads, and while the stopped transactions typically number over 70,000 in a year, prosecutions typically stay under 100, and convictions under 10.

This leads one to wonder about the percentage of stopped transactions that are due to old, dropped cases, and how many are just flat-out unwarranted.

Frankly, I don't think an NICS check stop at a dealer is going to keep a determined crook or sociopath from finding a weapon via alternate means. And, I think the existing laws (for instance, ten years federal prison for straw purchasers, in theory) would have plenty of teeth to accomplish the desired ends, if they were prosecuted in good faith.
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Old April 22, 2013, 01:53 PM   #134
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I voted no, what we need is a good legal system that includes swift trial, and death penalty for Murders. Should take no more than two or three days to have a trial and an execution.
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Old April 22, 2013, 02:00 PM   #135
MLeake
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TX Hunter, the only problem with your idea is that exoneration rates for murderers, last I checked, was over 10% in the long term. Look at Illinois's suspension of the death penalty; see also the Florida cases linked to the wonder dog tracking team; see also the Washington state capital cases brought up for review when the public defender assigned to them turned out to have committed major blunders while working under the impairment of severe alcoholism.

Now, if we were to follow your guidelines, that would imply that one in ten would be put to death, only for us to later find out we'd had a bit of an oops.

You may find that acceptable; I do not.
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Old April 22, 2013, 02:02 PM   #136
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Pretty much every crime one can commit with a firearm has been illegal since the beginning of time, so what is the point? Rape, robbery, coercion, vandalism and murder. What part the tool plays is immaterial. Some may say that keeping firearms from felons, mentally deranged and children are gun control laws and I would agree only if the felons and disturbed cannot be kept from the law abiding.
Just to put controls on a tool that has functions that can be used either way, to murder or to prevent murder. To destroy property or to prevent destruction.
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Old April 22, 2013, 02:40 PM   #137
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MLeak

Yes I do believe there would be some mistakes made, but I do think that we would see a drastic reduction of crime, and It would save alot of money thats waisted to room and board these Criminals. Just my views I understand others see things different. I also think that If we didnt have so many gun laws lives would be spared. Criminals attack in Gun free Zones.
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Old April 22, 2013, 02:52 PM   #138
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I agree about Gun Free Zones needing to go.

However, unless we curtail the rights of people to appeal - drastically - then the cost of 3 meals and a cot for lifetime don't come close to the cost of legal fees in a death penalty case. So, arguing costs in favor of the death penalty only work (as would your proposed timeline) if we gutted the appellate system.

If we did that, then what would happen to other sorts of appeals? Would we limit restrictions on appeals to capital cases, only? Or would we put severe restrictions on all appeals? I don't know about you, but I really, really do not like that idea at all.

Quite frankly, I don't think life imprisonment is exactly a cakewalk. It costs less than the court cases typically associated with dealth penalty trial and appeal; it allows an opportunity to mitigate the harm to the convicted, should exculpatory evidence turn up at a later time.

So, I don't favor the death penalty in general, and I really would not support it if the appeals system were gutted.

Note that this has nothing to do with thinking the life of the criminal is sacred, in my case. It just has a lot more to do with human fallibility, and my unwillingness to be part of a system that railroads people.
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Old April 22, 2013, 03:18 PM   #139
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ML eake

I can respect Your point of view, the current judicial system of catch and release keeps a healthy population of Criminals and generates revinue while maintaining job security for Everyone involved including the Criminal. My method would be detrimental to the population and overall well being of the would be do badders. It all makes since now thanks for enlightening Me.
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Old April 22, 2013, 03:22 PM   #140
MLeake
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TX Hunter, your system would be detrimental to everybody who ever got convicted due to perjury, witness error, or coincidence.

I don't really care about the do-badders. I care quite a bit about the significant percentage who are factually innocent (not innocent due to technicalities or procedural errors, but who are no kidding the wrong guy) yet still get convicted.

There are quite a lot of those.

Your proposed system would kill all of them.

Maybe you need enlightenment, no sarcasm intended.
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Old April 22, 2013, 04:25 PM   #141
TX Hunter
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MLEAKE

Do we both agree that Murders deserve punishment ? I hope so. Do we also agree that Gun Control is not the answer to reducing violence ?
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Old April 22, 2013, 04:42 PM   #142
Vanya
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Since we've moved away from gun control laws, to the pros and cons of the death penalty and revamping the entire criminal justice system, it's time to close this.
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