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Old September 3, 2010, 02:21 AM   #1
Alan_Smithee
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barrel bushing Beretta 96 fits 92 too?

Hello Guys,

I recently bought a Beretta 92F which is in very good condition for a very good price. After having read several threads regarding it's accuracy it soon became clear that some modifications are mandatory to be able to use it for competition shooting. After having installed an adjustable LPA-sight, I'm now desperately looking for a barrel bushing. Unfortunately the only ressource I found in the web so far is Brownells. They offer different Beretta barrel bushings for the 96 model. Now my questions is: Do they fit the 92 as well?
(I of course as well came across Weigand's Nosepiece, but according to his homepage he's not doing international shipping, and as I'm being located in Germany... )
I'd be pretty thankful for any hints on where to get a barrel bushing for my beretta 92F. (Special barrels of course could do the job as well, but unfortunately this is no option for me because of the troubles with internationl shipping of such items)

Cheers,
Alan
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Old September 3, 2010, 01:29 PM   #2
James K
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You can't get bushings for the 92 because it doesn't use a bushing. That was one of the improvements to the 96.

Jim
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Old September 3, 2010, 03:16 PM   #3
Dilbert
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Jim, could clarify that, I have both and don't remember seeing a barrel bushing on the 96.
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Old September 3, 2010, 11:23 PM   #4
riverwalker76
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Talk to Alan Dugger over at Sprinco gunsprings. If you PM me I can give you my name as a reference, and tell him I referred you. He will hook you up. He will have exactly what you are looking for. You can also try Gretchen Giese over at Wolff Gunsprings. They have a great product as well. Both are great products, and I honestly couldn't choose one over the other. They are both that good!
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Old September 4, 2010, 01:19 AM   #5
JohnKSa
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I don't know what kind of competition you are considering, but I certainly wouldn't say that a barrel bushing is mandatory for shooting a 92 in competition unless you're talking about serious bullseye competition or maybe high-level Bianchi Cup type competitions.

A stock Beretta 92FS in reasonable condition will typically shoot under 3" at 25 yards with good ammunition.

I'd look at trigger improvements before I started trying to modify the slide or barrel. And if I did decide that the gun wasn't accurate enough after getting the trigger slicked up I'd try a fitted match barrel from a reputable source before looking for someone to install a barrel bushing.
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Old September 4, 2010, 06:43 PM   #6
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You can also get the improved trigger springs at Wolff Gunsprings.
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Old September 5, 2010, 10:36 AM   #7
Alan_Smithee
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Hello all,

first of all I would like to thank you very much for your answers.

@Jim
Regarding the many threads and articles In have read about the 92, many shooters have improved accury by using a barrel bushing. The 96 has a different barrel to use caliber 40. SW, the rest of the pistol should be very much the same as the 92. Brownell.com offers barrel bushings for the 96, so this does not seem to be regular, does it?

@Dilbert
This seems to confirm what I mentioned above.

@riverwalker76
Thanks a lot. I will contact you via PM. Currently my gunsmith is on holiday and the gun ist at his side. As soon as he is back I will pick the gun up and have some first rounds with the lpa sight mounted. The trigger seems to be already improved, as it is quite smooth with a clearly recognizable trigger point. I as well came across the Wolff springs. I consider to have the slide and trigger spring changed. But I think the most improvement will be achived by using the barrel bushing.

@JohnKSa
The disciplin I'm shooting is a mixture of precision and duell.
The first 20 rounds (150 sec for 5 shots) a being shot at 25 m (should be more or less the same as 25 yards) on a square the size 50cm x 50cm ( 20 inch x 20 inch) the maximum is 10 points in the inner circle which ha a diameter of 2 inch. (So the ideal would be to reach a dispersion range of max. 2 inch)
The Duell means you have 20 sec for 5 shots, after that the target is being turned away from the shooter.
I hope I was able to give you some impression on the disciplin I'm going for.

What kind of ammo would you consider to be a good one? Any suggestions?
So you would prefer to have the barrel changed before installing the barrel bushing, right? I really don't know by now how much the bushing would be, but a match barrel would cost me something around 300€ (386$) which would almost double the price I paid for the Beretta. So I guess it all depends on the results of the first improvement steps.
Regarding the trigger, have you installed a trigger stop?

Best regards,
Alan
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Old September 5, 2010, 11:49 PM   #8
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Alan,

By "good ammo" I mean any decent quality ammunition that shoots well in your pistol. I've had good luck with Fiocchi in the Beretta 92 pistols--it seems to shoot very accurately in them. That said, I don't recall any decent quality ammunition that didn't do fairly well in them.

2" accuracy at 25 yards is a pretty stringent accuracy requirement for a typical semi-auto pistol. I agree that to consistently achieve that will probably require some modifications to the pistol.

I have fitted a trigger into one of my 92 pistols to prevent trigger overtravel. If you know of someone who is competent with a welder you can do the same. Have him weld a raised spot of metal on the flat portion of the back of the trigger where it normally contacts the frame inside the trigger guard. Make sure that there is enough metal added to restrict the trigger travel sufficiently to prevent the gun from firing. Then you can file the spot down a tiny bit at a time until the gun will fire.

Just be sure that if you plan to replace any parts in the trigger/hammer system you do so before fitting the trigger. Otherwise you may find that you may need to repeat the process above.

By the way, such a modification can reduce the reliability of the pistol. My pistol no longer fires reliably in double-action as a result of the limited trigger travel. I could remove a bit more metal to achieve reliable double-action operation but that would introduce some overtravel into the single-action trigger pull.

Another option for achieving better barrel/slide fit that you might be able to implement less expensively than either the fitted match barrel or barrel bushing is to try the same approach that H&K has used on some of their pistols. That is, machine a small ring in the barrel where it fits through the hole in the front of the slide and put a tough o-ring made from synthetic material in the groove. If you can find a good machinist in your area you might be able to have the machining done at a reasonable price. Then you would just have to replace the o-ring at intervals when it wears sufficiently to allow things to loosen up.

I have not used this method and I don't recall reading of anyone else using this approach with a Beretta pistol but I can't see why it wouldn't work.

What sort of group sizes are you able to shoot with the pistol (using ammunition it "likes") at 25 yards and employing the technique required by the competition discipline you plan to participate in?
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Old September 6, 2010, 03:37 AM   #9
Alan_Smithee
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Hello JohnKSa,

I understand the procedure you were doing to the trigger. What I don't know by now is, how the overtravel of the trigger effects the accuracy? DA is not important for the discipline I'm going for, so this should be no show stopper.

In fact I discussed the "HK solution" with a friend of my already, who is using a HK USP Expert. We had the same idea as you had.
The general problem with tuning of guns in Germany is, that you are almost not allowed to perform any changes to the gun. If changes need to be made, the must be performed by an official gunsmith. (Which of course doesn't make things cheaper)

Unfortunately also the ways on how to buy and own a gun differs quite a lot from the way it is in the US. It takes several weeks until the legal entry has been made into your gun license so you are able to pick it up. Therefore in fact I haven't shot the Beretta so far. As it was in an almost unused state with grips that perfectly fittet my large hands and the price was hot, it was some kind of spontanious buy, but I had to leave the gun at the dealer. I have to admit that I informed myself about it's gerneral performace after.
As he's now in addition on holiday, I will be able to give concrete information about it's current accuracy end of September the earliest.
I will keep you updated.

Thanks and best regards,
Alan
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Old September 6, 2010, 07:00 AM   #10
Alan_Smithee
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JohnKSa,

plz forget about my question regarding the overtravel. On the first attempt I mixed up trigger with hammer. But it's clear now.

Alan
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Old September 6, 2010, 01:41 PM   #11
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I don't think you made a bad purchase. The 92/96 pistols, when in good condition, are pretty accurate pistols from a purely mechanical standpoint. When you get the gun, do some careful testing from a rest and I think you will be impressed. I don't know that you will get sub-2" groups from it, but I think it will be close.

You are correct that reducing/eliminating trigger overtravel doesn't really improve the accuracy of the pistol, it just helps the shooter a little which can improve the accuracy of the shooter/pistol combination.
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Old April 13, 2013, 06:42 AM   #12
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Warning- Old thread revival.

I too have ended up with a woefully wobbly barrel / slide fit on a '83 model Italian... and have yet to locate a suitable bushing, or any such bushing for that matter.

However, I did happen across another possible idea that I would like to run past you all. What would be the sins and evils of knurling the last 1.12" of the barrel (with clamp / scissor type knurling tool)?

Knurling increases OD- right? And, it can be smoothed a bit so as not to cut the slide contact area- right? And, it'll be about butt ugly- ummm... right.

Is there much chance of getting the desired effects on the OD without ruining the ID of the barrel?

What say ya'll in the know?
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Old April 13, 2013, 08:31 PM   #13
Jimro
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Bad idea.

Do it right. Ream the slide, solder a bushing in place.

Jimro
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Old April 14, 2013, 09:47 PM   #14
ClydeFrog
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Olhasso.com

Hi;
For questions or problems with the Beretta 92/96 series, Id contact top US pistolsmith & match shooter; David Olhasso, www.Olhasso.com .

He is well known for Beretta 92F/96F pistols & the newer PX4 Storm line.

CF
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Old April 15, 2013, 03:51 AM   #15
Alan_Smithee
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As I started the thread once I at least owe you the answer how things ended with my attempt to find a bushing. For me located in Germany ist was impossible to organize any kind of bushing. There was one gunsmith that thought in might be possible to produce but the costs for the project would have been nearly as expensive as the gun itself. ( i bought it for approx. 250 €)
After endles research in the www I at least found a dealer the offered some remaining 5" slide and barrel made by Vektor called SP1 that fitted the Beretta 92 with some minor changes. So now I'm using this slide & barrel combination for precison shooting which is a pretty good improvement. For dynamic shooting I'm using the original Beretta set up as well as a Ciener 22lr which allows me to cover a lot of disciplines with only one gun.

Sorry for not being able to contribute to your current problem.

Cheers,
Alan
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Old April 15, 2013, 04:23 AM   #16
Alan_Smithee
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Sorry, one short correction, barrel is a 6" polygon, not 5"
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