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Old April 5, 2013, 07:38 PM   #1
dakota1820
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if I were to rely on only one.

Hey guys I have two guns that consider good enough in general to carry. A kahr cw40 amd a keltec 9mm.
I love the way the kahr feels and looks. However it has been a nightmare out of the box. Would fire then then eject and reload and slide would hang up after 5 rounds it wouldn't even load any longer.sent it to kahr and they reworked the barrel it got better but would not rapid fire i would have to shoot then eject the round it would try to load and load a new one and thats the only way it would work......sent it back again. Haven't shot it yet but this time the store owner personally ran 50 rounds through it and said it was good. It seems to slide better now and overall feels smoother

Now the keltec in the first 20 rounds had a couple failure to feed after that its been flawless.

The kahr feels better but the keltec works better so far.... kahr as a whole is supposed to be better quality than keltec right? I am thinking of selling one and would like to stick to one caliber since rounds are so hard to find. So maybe only get 9mm firearms or only 40. I have a 22 rifle and wouldn't mind a good 22 pistol for fun. What do you guys think? What would you do?
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Old April 5, 2013, 07:41 PM   #2
BigD_in_FL
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Did you do the Kahr mag prep as suggested on the Kahr forum? Everyone I know who has had a feeding problem has NOT done the drill - once done, the issues go away. There is a tutorial by one of the major members on what to do

If you have, and it STILL does have issues, then send it back to Kahr - they will make it right
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Old April 5, 2013, 07:42 PM   #3
dakota1820
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Could you enlighten me?
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Old April 5, 2013, 08:29 PM   #4
orionengnr
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I have owned three Kahrs so far (fourth is on order) and only had problems with a PM45, and that was only with certain JHP ammo.

That said, most of the Kahr problems I have read about were with .40s. The .40s are built on the same frame as the 9s, and while the 9s work, the 40s are iffy.

The PM9s, CM9s, CW9s, and the MKs generally work fine. The P45s, CW45s, likewise. The .40s...crap shoot.

All that said, after owning four Kel-Tecs (one each first and second gen P3ATs, one P32 and one P11) Krap-Tec will never again see a dime of my money.

Not. One. Dime.
Not. A. Chance. In. Hell.
Are we clear?
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Old April 6, 2013, 12:34 AM   #5
dakota1820
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Why the hate for kel-tec?
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Old April 6, 2013, 01:28 AM   #6
JimmyR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota1820
The kahr feels better but the keltec works better so far
.

Until such time as this fact changes, you have answered your own question. Regardless of caliber, a gun that works is better than one that doesn't. I would rather put .22 caliber holes in someone than have a .40 rock.
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Old April 6, 2013, 03:55 AM   #7
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Dakota- I'm at a loss on the Kahr mag-prep thing too. Shoot the Kahr and see how it does.

I really hope it does well for you. A thing or two does come to mind about your dilema... I don't know your shooting experience, but is there any chance the pistols are sensitive to wrist-flip (limp wristing)? If the obstacle to overcome is with your technique, then it would be my honest opinion to look at makes and models which are known not to be prone to such incidents.

And while I understand the "feel" you describe is important- I'm not so big on "looks". In my mind "reliability", "shootability", "concealability", and then "feel" wins out. You said both were contenders for carry employment- please do not continue to hold with that school of thought. Neither one at this time demonstrates even the remotest semblance of reliability. I realize you have a pretty goood chunk of coin invested in these pistols, but until either one can function through at least 100rnds- they are NOT ready to serve in a 'save your bacon' role.

A phrase comes to mind that was posted my a member here several years ago comes to mind- "Go ahead and wear a $20 helmet if you think you have a $20 head." Yes, I know that applies to motorscooters (and forgive me for not remembering the members name)- but can you see how it applies?

A feller needs a handgun that will work when YOU want it to, not the other way around. Please let us know if the Kahr comes back from the next range trip in top condition.
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Old April 6, 2013, 06:59 AM   #8
45_auto
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Quote:
I am thinking of selling one and would like to stick to one caliber since rounds are so hard to find.
I'm trying to follow this logic.

You believe that since ammo is hard to find, you'll have BETTER chances of finding ammo if you only have one caliber that you can use?

Locally, I only see a couple of boxes of handgun ammo at a time in the stores. Sometimes it's 9mm, sometimes .40, sometimes .45, sometimes .38, sometimes .357, etc.

Seems to me that if ammo is hard to find that you would want MORE options as to the calibers you could use.
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Old April 6, 2013, 08:42 AM   #9
pete2
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Which one? Do some kind of trade and come up with a S&W model 19. They work every time with good ammo.
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Old April 6, 2013, 09:48 AM   #10
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I'm a revolver guy, and a J-frame or snub K-frame like the Model 19 would be a great choice. But if you want to stay with 9mm or .40 S&W you might want to consider selling both guns and buying a Glock 26 or 27 for sub-compact or 19 or 23 for compact. A second-generation Glock .40 (G22) was the only semi-auto I've ever owned that never, ever, so much as hiccuped.
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Old April 6, 2013, 10:08 AM   #11
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The limp-wrist idea crossed my mind on reading the OP, too.

But the biggest point to emphasize is that neither one has been sufficiently reliable in your hands. If you can get some coaching, training, and practice in that makes one of them reliable, or if the Kahr is really and truly fixed this time, fine. Otherwise it might be time to cut your losses, as disappointing as that may sound.

ETA: Please note that 50 rounds in the hands of someone else does not prove the pistol. The pistol needs to work well in your hands, and for a hundred or two hundred rounds overall, and a significant number of your defensive rounds (say 50 or more) to regain some level of your trust.
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Old April 6, 2013, 11:21 AM   #12
45_auto
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Get something that works all the time for your carry gun. Making excuses for limp-wristing isn't acceptable to me.

I carry Glocks or 1911's, and even if I purposely TRY to make them malfunction they all keep working.
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Old April 7, 2013, 05:53 PM   #13
Newton24b
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neither sounds "right' to me. especially a gun where your SUPPOSED to do some wierd modification to the gun or factory magazines so that it will actually work.....
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Old April 9, 2013, 08:45 AM   #14
Buckdown
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keltec pf9
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Old April 9, 2013, 01:07 PM   #15
ky keith
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well

you have to go with the one that performs best. what good is a gun that dont shoot?
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Old April 9, 2013, 09:04 PM   #16
Gaz_in_NZ
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Just read this thread with some interest...

Just a few thoughts : -
Here in NZ it's illegal to carry a gun and there is also no real need to do so BUT if I was to carry a gun there is no way on earth that I would carry a gun that had malfunctioned more than once in the dim and distant past, I mean what's the point?

I would carry a revolver because what's the use of carrying a gun that can't be relied on to go bang every time you pull the trigger? It's bad enough when it happens down at the range with miss feeds and stovepipe jams etc on an auto/semi auto.

If the threat couldn't be sorted out with 6 rounds of .38 or .357 then you were in a no-win situation from the start and probably needed an AA12 or a Mini-Gun.

Also I would only ever use Factory ammo so there's very little chance (however small that chance may be) of a cartridge with no load in it and the primer just pushes the bullet into the forcing cone and you can't open the damn cylinder, not what you want when that leaves you the only option of turning your back and trying to run away.

Can you still get Scorpion Hydra-shock and Black Tallon in .38 these days?

Cheers

G

Last edited by Gaz_in_NZ; April 9, 2013 at 09:13 PM.
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Old April 9, 2013, 09:31 PM   #17
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I carried a kel-tec p11 for 4 years and put roughly 6000rds through it during that time. The only time it ever jammed was when I let my girlfriend try it and she limp wristed it. It ate evrlerything from wolf to federal +p+. I would still own that gun if I hadn't sold off all my 9mms for the sake of owning less calibers.
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Old April 10, 2013, 04:00 PM   #18
iblong
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Had a Pf9 and never had issues with function,There were things about it I personally did not care for but it ran fine.Great buy for the money.I have and have had several Kahrs and the only one that gave me problems was a 40.
and it was a problem child.All mine 9's and 380's were /are 100% out of the box.
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Old April 11, 2013, 02:57 PM   #19
michael t
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I have a CW-9 and a PF-9 . I carry KelTec more than Kahr I just trust the KT more than the Kahr.

Your Kahr needs to go back till fixed or replaced
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Old April 11, 2013, 03:47 PM   #20
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Two possible scenarios come to my mind, based on experience learned.
1. Limp wristing and 2. Quality of ammo.
If it can't be fixed by one, chances are, it can probably be fixed by the other.

Once I got grip corrected, and realized it was still being as picky as my kids over what I was feeding it.... It went "buh bye"... Granted it was cheaper range ammo but I wasn't going to start blowing through boxes of my SD ammo trying to make the little princess happy.
If it can't enjoy eating canned Spam, I'm certainly not relying on it to not get indigestion when it needs to eat a Delmonico Rib-eye.
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Old April 11, 2013, 06:13 PM   #21
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"Limp-wristing" may well be a contributing factor to the op's malfunctioning experiences, but I am of the opinion that limp-wristing is an over-used reason for excusing a pistol that doesn't operate reliably. Personally, I don't want any pistol in my inventory that is sensitive to limp-wristing; especially one that is intended for self-defense use. I have plenty of pistols at my disposal, including several "Third Generation" Smiths, a couple of SIGs, a Beretta Model 92, an HK USP 40, a Ruger LCP, a CZ Model 85B and two 1911 variants that show no evidence of being susceptible to limp-wristing, no matter how loosely they are being held. Too many good ones out there to rely on one that requires a vise-like grip in order to function reliably imo.
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Old April 12, 2013, 11:51 AM   #22
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My shoice would be a SIG-Sauer.

the P226 is ideal,bit the P239 is smaller and a bit lighter.

I own both. The quality of SIG firearms is legendary. And with good reason.
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Old April 12, 2013, 09:00 PM   #23
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Dakota1820 - Regardless of anybody else's experience with Kahr and KelTec weapons, the bottom line is you have two guns that are of questionable reliability. Sell them BOTH and don't look back.

I have a personal bias (white as a ghost fear) of autoloaders that don't have a safety that disables the weapon ESPECIALLY and PARTICULARLY if the trigger is inadvertently or accidentally pressed. The idiotic idea of putting the only external safety in the middle of the freaking trigger... never mind.

You want a CCW gun that is reliable, reliable and reliable. As well as safe, safe and safe. Get a revolver or a 1911 pattern pistol. Period. End of story.
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Old April 13, 2013, 10:57 PM   #24
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dakota1820--

If I could have only one gun to carry it would be a Glock 19. IMO, Glocks are ugly and utterly reliable. Plus, since the safety is "built in" to the trigger there is no fumbling around at that time when fumbling around can mean life or the rendering of yourself into a permanent non-breathing state. But, that's only my opinion (about the Glock . . . I am sure about the non-breathing thing).

--Bill
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Old April 14, 2013, 12:07 PM   #25
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No experience with Kel-Tec but my EDC for 10 years has been a PM9, which has never had a failure since I took it out of the box ... if your Kahr isn't working as it should, send it back ... Kahr has a good reputation and I'm betting they will make it right ...
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