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Old April 14, 2013, 09:22 AM   #26
kraigwy
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I don't know where the idea comes that shooting is a minor aspect of the sniping game, or that you have to know how to shoot prior to sniper school and similar comments I've read in these post and similar post in other shooting forums, even those dedicated to the craft of sniping.

Prior to the start of the Army Sniper School at the Infantry Center, and the Marine's program, the Army Marksmanship Unit because of Lessons Learned in SE Asia, kept their program alive.

To get a slot in the AMU Sniper course of the 70-80s, you had to convince them that you would go back to your home State, Unit or Dept and institute a sniper program. What the AMU wanted to do was create sniper instructors, not so much as sniper per se.

The Marine Corp, Secret Service, FBI, Civlian State and local LE, and National Guard and Regular Army, sent individuals to this course.

That is what I did, I went back to my state, (Alaska) and started a sniper program for the Alaska National Guard, Anchorage Police Dept, and RA soldiers from Ft Richardson.

Training commanders was a big part of the program, in how to select individuals to attend the class.

The main criteria for the prospective student was "motivation", you want an individual who you could trust to seen out, and know he would conduct the mission unsupervised, or know he won't get out side the perimeter and "ghost".

You chose an individual who was well versed in common soldier skills, such as map reading, cover and concealment, patrolling, recon, calling for and adjusting indirect fire (including air assets)....etc etc....

Pretty much everything covered in FM 21-75, Individual Solder and Patrolling.

Expert qualification with the individual weapon is important but not a hard and fast requirement.

(I can teach anyone to shoot if they have the motivation, as Gary Anderson, Multi Gold Medalist and chief instructor of the CMP GSM Master Instructor Program, has said, THERE IS NO HOPELESS SHOOTER)

The AMU Sniper School concentrated on the shooting aspect and COACHING (this is where the spotter training comes in).

I'm not saying field craft isn't important, it is, extremely so, but that is, or should be covered in individual soldier skills. Current sniper schools tweak this a bit but shooting is the goal.

We say LE and military is different, this is true to a point, and false in other aspects.

LE snipers or counter snipers (which is the PC term) shoot at much shorter distances but have a much smaller target. For an example, a few square inches of a bandit behind a hostage. The military sniper "normally" engages targets are longer distances but has a larger target, as in an bandit laying an IED in a road.

But if you think about it, its the same if you consider MOA size of the target.

Two inches for the LE Officer at 100 yards is pretty close to a man size target at 900 or so yards. (2 MOA is basically 2 inches at 100 yards, and 20 inches at 1000 yards) so as you can see, its pretty close to being the same.

Now as I said, Varmint hunting is about as good of training as you can get. You have to hide from your quarry, you have to shoot different angles, in different weather conditions, you need to judge distance, you need to know the trajectory and ballistics of your rifle/ammo. You need noise discipline, your targets vary in size as does the distance and you need land nav. and map reading.

If you think back on your experiences in hunting of game and varmints, you see its pretty much the same thing.

Everyone brings up Carlos Hathcock, there is a good example, where did he get his start??? Hunting in Arkansas. He went in the MC and improved his skills on the High Power Rifle Range.
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Kraig Stuart
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USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
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Old May 21, 2013, 08:00 AM   #27
BlackSheep6
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I've never gone to a class there but badlands tactical in OK was a very good group of guys that I had conversations with when I was at FT Sill OK trying to set up some training prior to a deployment.

I'm pretty sure that their course isn't called sniper its Long Range precision or something like that.

If I remember right the instructers were the NG sniper school instructors. Its been a few years so I may be a bit foggy on the specifics. None the less they were easy to deal with and it may be worth a shot at checking them out.

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Old May 21, 2013, 06:26 PM   #28
ClydeFrog
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training programs....

For long range shooting or para-military type marksmanship skill training I'd check these courses/instructors; Dave Lauck, DL.Sports; SIG Sauer Academy, Craft Intl started by the late Chris Kyle, US Navy SEAL & author of American Sniper, Larry Vickers: Vickers Tactical, Thunder Ranch, Academi aka; Xe.

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