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Old April 7, 2013, 12:11 AM   #1
wateroperator1972
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Poor/Incomplete SKS - Century International Arms

After debating weather or not to gamble with Century on their U-Fix-Ems, I gambled on a Poor/Incomplete Chinese Type 56 SKS for $159. Put the order in and received it in about 10 days, all the while getting nervous from other forums saying they got rust buckets from Century U-Fix-Ems. Received it this week. After 4 hours of cleaning the cosmoline off it, I determined I made the right decision. The stock was cracked all along the right side. It is irreparable. The hand guard is also cracked badly. Other than that, all the numbers match except the receiver cover and stock. There is no rust and no missing parts. The bluing is about 40%. I completely dismantled and cleaned/lubed it. Man did I lluck out! Installed a TAPCO T6 stock, TAPCO magazine release, and a 20 round TAPCO magazine. Total spent all together including shipping - $300. I will probably also get an original stock, but I like the looks of it now. All and all, I would definitely gamble with Century again on the U-Fix-Ems. They have Chinese Nagants U-Fix-Ems in stock right now for $59. My 3rd C&R since I got my License last september. Man is this addictive!






Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1SKS Original Cracked Stock.jpg (150.6 KB, 248 views)
File Type: jpg 2SKS No Stock.jpg (223.1 KB, 247 views)
File Type: jpg 3SKS New TAPCO Stock.jpg (177.4 KB, 247 views)

Last edited by wateroperator1972; April 7, 2013 at 12:38 AM. Reason: Added Pictures
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Old April 7, 2013, 10:08 AM   #2
HankC1
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You are lucky to receive one with bolt, some are missing bolts. They sold out anyway. How is the bore condition?
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Old April 7, 2013, 12:24 PM   #3
UtahHunting
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Welcome to the TFL. Shoot it and enjoy it!

I bought one of the CAI Type 56's but it was not a U fix em. I got a complete matching rifle with the cleaning rod. Bluing is about the same condition as yours. The stock is still usable however which I prefer since I like them in original condition. The chrome lined bore looks like new on mine which is a huge plus. If these rifles could talk I am sure they could tell us some great stories as I have no doubt these were used in actual battle. I paid $300 which is a bit high but I had to have one for my collection.

I also have a T53 mosin you mention in decent shape for what it is. As you probably know the T53's are rough, mine is no exception but is shootable and the bore is in decent shape. Unfortunately my T53 is mismatched but still fits the collection well.

Hope you enjoy your new rifle and good luck if you go with the T53, I think you will enjoy it.



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Old April 7, 2013, 01:33 PM   #4
wateroperator1972
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The bore is in excellent shape. Need to get some ammo so I can shoot it soon! My safe is full now, but I really like the looks of the T53 Mosins. I like the original looks also. I'm going to hang the original SKS stock up. Man if that stock could talk!!!!
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Old April 7, 2013, 04:59 PM   #5
tahunua001
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that's a pretty good deal, your you fix um is about the same condition as most of the SKS I've seen in my area on the shelves including the one I bought right before christmas. mine has almost no finish left, the stock was about the same condition and heavily shrunken and poorly fitted with a rotting hand guard. didn't have the cleaning rod but all parts matching and the thing was stuffed with cosmoline.

my original intention was to do similar to what you did in order to make 'The Poor Man's Evil Black Rifle' but in the end settled with a ramline monte carlo stock since it fit like a glove with no fitting and the T6 was a horribly molded and would have required a lot of filing and fitting that I am far too lazy and uncomfortable with so I ended up selling it. I also went with the tapco 20 rounder to make it 922R compliant but I much prefer the metal mag and feeding from stripper clips though the 20 rounder is functional and reliable. I rounded it off with a set of tech sights peeps that greatly increased the sight picture.
here's mine:
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Old April 7, 2013, 05:20 PM   #6
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Unless you have replaced more parts with U.S. made parts than you mentioned to make your SKS "conversion! 922r compliant you might want to take your post down until you do some research; n U.S. Code 922r. Also, your SKS: s no lnger a Curio when c with the modifications you made.
No need to invite a visit from the men in dark suits story ng black SUV's

From http://www.tapco.com/section922r/
Quote:
Below is the wording from 18 U.S.C. § 922(r) and 27 CFR 478.39 Disclaimer: This is an attempt to present this law. Information taken from this context should not be considered permission to manufacture semiautomatic rifles.

18 U.S.C. § 922(r)

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to -

(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.
From http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html
Quote:
Q: What modifications can be made on C&R firearms without changing their C&R classification?

The definition for curio or relic (“C & R”) firearms found in 27 CFR § 478.11 does not specifically state that a firearm must be in its original condition to be classified as a C&R firearm. However, ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item. Combining this ruling and the definition of C&R firearms, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has concluded that a firearm must be in its original condition to be considered a C&R weapon.

It is also the opinion of FTB, however, that a minor change such as the addition of scope mounts, non-original sights, or sling swivels would not remove a firearm from its original condition. Moreover, we have determined that replacing particular firearms parts with new parts that are made to the original design would also be acceptable-for example, replacing a cracked M1 Grand stock with a new wooden stock of the same design, but replacing the original firearm stock with a plastic stock would change its classification as a C&R item.
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Old April 7, 2013, 06:19 PM   #7
tahunua001
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Quote:
Unless you have replaced more parts with U.S. made parts than you mentioned to make your SKS "conversion! 922r compliant you might want to take your post down until you do some research; n U.S. Code 922r. Also, your SKS: s no lnger a Curio when c with the modifications you made.
No need to invite a visit from the men in dark suits story ng black SUV's
cheap shooter, the OPs SKS is 922R compliant. the removal of the stock, handguard, magazines body and follower drop it into compliance levels. the only exceptions are yugoslavian SKS that have a muzzle brake and require an extra part removed/replaced.

perhaps you should take your post down until you've done more research. here's a link to a site that offers an interactive spread sheet to show whether your SKS is compliant or not.
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Old April 7, 2013, 06:40 PM   #8
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Am I also wrong on the mods making it no longer C&R ? If it does , does he then have to take it out of his bound book as a disposition to himself?
I wasn't aware that the muzzle attachment was the reason more parts have to be changed to make a Yugo SKS compliant.
Although my information on the OP's SKS was flawed, I think it's important for people to realize there may be legal issues with "modernizing" some C&R firearms.
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Old April 7, 2013, 06:50 PM   #9
tahunua001
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this rifle was still acquired as a C&R and his license was still used to purchase it. not having that in his bound book sounds more like a violation than not and technically all weapons purchased with a C&R is a deposition to yourself and is to be used for your personal collection...

I do not own a C&R so I don't know how it works but it seems like even that, which was barely even alluded to in your first post, would be a gray area that needs to be answered and put to rest by 'the men in black suits in the black suvs'.
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Old April 7, 2013, 07:56 PM   #10
wateroperator1972
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I do have a C&R. The Chinese SKS only has 14 Foreign parts in regards to 922r. The Tapco magazine counts as 2 USA parts - the body and follower. The Tapco Stock is 1 USA part and the Tapco handguard is 1 USA part. You need 10 or less foreign parts to be in compliance with 922r. My mods are 14foreign-4USA= 10 Foreign parts, therefore is fully in compliance with 922r. Technically, it is not a C&R anymore, so I would have to dispose of it to myself to my non-C&R collection.
Please read info from this site if anyone else has concerns. http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=27678.0
I saved the stock, handguard, and magazine which can easily be put back to original C&R condition if need be.
I like your setup tahunua001!

On a side note...TAPCO is misleading on their 922r compliance parts. They have the T6 stock for the SKS as 3 USA parts(it's really only 2), and they also list the SKS magazine as 3 parts(it only counts as 2 also). The original SKS configuration does not have a handgrip and the original SKS magazine's floor plate is built in and not counted as a part. You can't count a part as replaced if it never existed. I'm surprised TAPCO doesn't get in trouble with false advertising. Then again, How many people have ever been fined or arrested for 922r non-compliance????

Last edited by wateroperator1972; April 7, 2013 at 08:17 PM.
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Old April 7, 2013, 08:20 PM   #11
tahunua001
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thanks water operator.
having to dispose of a rifle that is no longer a C&R is news to me but again, I don't have a FFL3.
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Last edited by tahunua001; April 7, 2013 at 09:08 PM.
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Old April 8, 2013, 01:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
this rifle was still acquired as a C&R and his license was still used to purchase it. not having that in his bound book sounds more like a violation than not and technically all weapons purchased with a C&R is a deposition to yourself and is to be used for your personal collection...
I think you have a misconception of what a Class 03 Collector of Curio and Relic Firearms FFL is. It is exactly for acquiring firearms for your personal collection. So you don't enter a disposition to your self for a firearm you bought using your own C&R FFL. As long as it remains a C&R firearm.
It is also specifically stated that you can not "engage in the business of dealing in firearms" with a C&R FFL. Selling a gun to "improve your collection" is allowed, and that is where the disposition comes in. That subject leads to a whole new debate. Some feel it is improving your collection, not engaging in being a dealer to buy a whole case of guns, and sell all but one for a profit enough to cover the expense of the one you keep. That one seems like a bit of a stretch to me.
When I say enter it as a disposition to your seld in your bound book I am going by what I have been told by many. If mit is no longer a C&R firearm. it does not belong in the book. That doesn't mean you have to get rid of it, just take it off your book.

Quote:
as far as my modification of CR firearms question, I found an answer elsewhere on the Internet and my local ATF office confirmed.

It really was a no-brainer,,

In case anyone else out there doesn't already know:

Basically if you modify a C&R purchased firearm and its no longer C&R compliant you have to transfer it off your Bound Book. Basically the ATF said to transfer it off to your personal collection and comment that it was being customized. Once its off your bound book you can treat it like any non-C&R firearm you own. As long as your modifications are legal (NFA, 922r) you should be good to go.
The BATF works very hard at making the rules very confusing I think!
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Old April 9, 2013, 10:55 AM   #13
jsmaye
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Quote:
Also, your SKS: s no lnger a Curio when c with the modifications you made.
But if it was made before April 1963 does it qualify as a Relic, regardless of its Curio i.e. 'original issue' status?
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Last edited by jsmaye; April 9, 2013 at 11:04 AM.
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Old April 9, 2013, 11:16 AM   #14
tahunua001
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unfortunately the way that it is worded "assembling a semi automatic rifle from foreign made made parts" change it's status from C&R to modern rifle.
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Old April 9, 2013, 01:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmaye
But if it was made before April 1963 does it qualify as a Relic, regardless of its Curio i.e. 'original issue' status?
No, it's got to be "as issued". You can replace parts, but they've got to be either of contemporary manufacture or substantially the same. If it's in, say, one of those Tapco stocks, it's not C&R anymore.

As far as "disposing" of it in the bound book if it's been altered to not be C&R anymore, I don't see the harm in that. It may be a belt and suspenders approach to the rules, but in this day and age, it's probably not a bad idea.
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Old April 11, 2013, 07:34 PM   #16
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I thought if the changes were 'easily reversible' it remained C&R.
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Old April 11, 2013, 09:02 PM   #17
tahunua001
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no it just means that while your wife stalls the agents at the front door you can run out back and put it back to C&R status
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