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Old April 10, 2013, 03:46 PM   #1
BarryLee
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Empty Holsters and Campus Stabbing

Sort of ironic that a college student decided to stab 14 fellow classmates the same week that the organization Students for Concealed Carry was conducting an Empty Holster Protest.

Once again a violent individual committed to doing harm to others has picked a gun free zone for their attack. I wonder how many young people could have avoided the trauma of being stabbed if students were allowed to exercise their right to carry.

Personally I believe that individuals that can otherwise legally carry should not be denied that right just because they enter a college campus.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/10...est=latestnews

http://concealedcampus.org/empty-holster-protest/
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Old April 10, 2013, 04:00 PM   #2
Glockstar .40
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Agreed! and no doubt the lefts argument will be that "at least no one died" speel so its not a big deal to stab 15 people as long as no one dies?
it just proves that they care for no ones safety. all they care about is there agenda
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Old April 10, 2013, 04:53 PM   #3
Tom Servo
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Quote:
I wonder how many young people could have avoided the trauma of being stabbed if students were allowed to exercise their right to carry.
Allowing campus carry would most likely have a deterrent effect, and in the right place and time, it could end such a spree.

But that's a lot of "could" and "can," which makes it hard to prove.

I wonder at the efficacy of walking around with an empty holster. That's a way of showing that I'm most definitely not armed.
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Old April 10, 2013, 05:39 PM   #4
BarryLee
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Quote:
But that's a lot of "could" and "can," which makes it hard to prove.

I wonder at the efficacy of walking around with an empty holster. That's a way of showing that I'm most definitely not armed.
Oh no doubt I’m by no way making a definitive statement that someone with a handgun would have “saved the day”. As for the empty holsters that’s just for one week and it does provide a visual to other students just how many people might carry and that they are basically normal folks.
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Old April 11, 2013, 12:14 AM   #5
mk8tim
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i personally believe a few armed individuals could have easily stopped this.
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Old April 11, 2013, 01:40 AM   #6
Gaerek
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The point Tom is making is that we cannot say for sure that allowing carry on campus would have stopped this. We simply cannot make that statement. I'll refer you to the Gabby Giffords (please keep politics out of this) shooting. It occurred in a gun friendly state, with no gun restrictions in the area. He managed to kill several and injure more. The citizen with the gun, Joe Zamudio, didn't show up until after the shooter had been subdued by unarmed citizens.

If someone had been armed in that situation, they might have saved the day. They might not have, either. I agree that allowing carry on campus will likely have a deterrent affect, but we cannot guarantee that allowing individuals the right to carry would have stopped the knife wielding madman.

I'm not arguing against allowing for CC on campus, quite the opposite, really. But we need to be careful in the arguments we make, especially ones that are easily dismantled.

A better way of putting it is like this:

Banning carry of guns guarantees that a crazed murderer will have the opportunity to carry out his violent act with little opposition. Allowing carry of guns increases the odds of a civilian bystander being able to stop this crazed madman.
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Old April 11, 2013, 05:10 AM   #7
rebs
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It is proven that a vast majority of mass shootings, stabbing etc have occurred in gun free zones. How many do you know of that has happened in a non gun free zone ? IMHO concealed carry does have a deterrent effect on where the majority of these mass shootings occur.
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Old April 11, 2013, 05:55 AM   #8
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Politicians probably make it a point to try have their assemblies at locations that would prohibit lawful carry to make security easier for their staff and in their mind provide for a safer environment. How many would actually think the "armed citizens" are their backup?
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Old April 11, 2013, 08:14 AM   #9
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I just hope the idiot with the knife didn't do this as a stunt to prove a point for our side. In other words, I think we need to be careful about using this situation to say "if people had guns, this wouldn't have happened", for fear that someone finds some "manifesto" where the guy talks about going on a knife rampage just to prove a point.
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Old April 11, 2013, 11:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
It is proven that a vast majority of mass shootings, stabbing etc have occurred in gun free zones. How many do you know of that has happened in a non gun free zone ? IMHO concealed carry does have a deterrent effect on where the majority of these mass shootings occur.
I said there would likely be a deterrent effect.

Quote:
If someone had been armed in that situation, they might have saved the day. They might not have, either. I agree that allowing carry on campus will likely have a deterrent affect, but we cannot guarantee that allowing individuals the right to carry would have stopped the knife wielding madman.
In addition, the Gabby Giffords shooting is a notable exception to the whole, "Mass murders only occur in gun free zones." Most do, but not all. It's also noted that the Aurora shooter chose that particular theater because they had a "No Gun" policy, whereas others in the area did not.

The point I was making was that we can argue a deterrent effect. We can say that IF someone with a gun were there, they MIGHT have been able to stop the attacker. But we cannot say that just by allowing CC somewhere will mean a mass murder will not occur.

I believe they will be fewer and further between. I believe that many attempted mass murders will likely be stopped (Clackamas mall shooting was likely stopped short by a person carrying a concealed handgun, and the Pearl High School shooting likely had a lower casualty count as a result of a good person with a gun). I also believe that we need to be well informed about these incidents, and use the proper arguments. We need to stop using arguments that can be dismantled easily (such as CC on campus will stop tragedy from happening).

Quote:
Politicians probably make it a point to try have their assemblies at locations that would prohibit lawful carry to make security easier for their staff and in their mind provide for a safer environment.
As far as the Gabby Giffords shooting is concerned, I believe there was no real security there. Most people don't realize that prior to the shooting, Rep. Giffords, even as a Dem, was pro-gun. She didn't turn into the anti-gunner than she is until after the shooting. And her replacement, Ron Barber is anti-gun as well, even though he says he's not. He was actually present at the shooting and took a bullet to the face and leg. I'm guessing this incident has an affect on his outlook on guns.

Last edited by Gaerek; April 11, 2013 at 11:32 AM.
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Old April 11, 2013, 11:55 AM   #11
lcpiper
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There was another condition of the Gabby Giffords' shooting.

The crowd was large enough and close enough that if someone had tried to shoot the murderer they would have almost certainly shot someone else too.

In order to shoot the bad guy you would have had to shove the gun into his chest, then pull the trigger. If your that close a gun is no longer needed and in fact wasn't needed to subdue him.
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Old April 11, 2013, 12:06 PM   #12
Gaerek
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The point being, allowing CC somewhere doesn't guarantee a mass murder won't occur. We, as responsible gun owners need to be smart in our arguments, staying away from rhetoric and straw man arguments.

By the way, the same argument could be made about the Aurora shooting. It's very likely the same result would have happened in a "gun friendly" theater.
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Old April 11, 2013, 12:07 PM   #13
Kimio
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Question in regards to point blank range in such a scenario. Even if you did shove the handgun into the assailents chest, would it have the chance of penetrating through him and hitting another innocent bystander? So the question remains here, in such a situation is a firearm still a viable option. The dangers of over penetration, especially with more powerful cartridges seems pretty prevelant in such an environment, where people are tightly packed together.

I'd say carrying both a knife and a firearm would be ideal.
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Old April 11, 2013, 12:36 PM   #14
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Empty Holsters

Ok, now, using the same logic as the anti-gunners and Obama, we should implement a national registration of all box cutters and knives. As our president said, if it will save even one life, we should do it! Don't those families of the students stabbed with a knife "deserve a vote"? I guess, the anti-gun group feel if someone is injured or killed with a knife, the relatives won't feel as bad as those shot with a gun! Next, look for confiscation of knives, box cutters, bats, hammers and long pipes! Yes, this was a MASS stabbing! Knives are evil!
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