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Old April 1, 2013, 06:10 PM   #1
Single Six
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How Far Is Too Far?

I recently picked up a Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle. I'm taking my first shots with it tomorrow. No scope yet, so here's my question: For sighting in, and also target shooting with iron sights on this particular rifle...how far is too far? At what distance does a short barreled .308 bolt gun genuinely NEED a scope? Thanks, guys.
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Old April 1, 2013, 07:11 PM   #2
Cowboy_mo
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Depends on how old your eyes are

If they are as old as mine and require bifocals ------- about 50 yards
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Old April 1, 2013, 07:23 PM   #3
RamItOne
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Sighting in an unkown rifle for the first time 25 yards.
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Old April 1, 2013, 07:30 PM   #4
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The gun doesn't need a scope. You do depending on the distance and your eyesight. Iron sights are good for target work at 100 yards with good eyesight. Deer hunting will double that.
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Old April 1, 2013, 07:31 PM   #5
jmr40
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Quote:
Depends on how old your eyes are
And your accuracy requirements. Scopes don't necessarily help you shoot significantly more accruately. They help you see the target. A scope is just as useful at 25 yards as at 250.

With good quality target type iron sights like on the Ruger, or on an AR you should be able to hit human size targets out to at least 200-300 yards. The USMC trains at 500 yards with iron sighted AR's.

As long as I've got good light and a visible target there isn't a huge difference in group size out to 200 yards. As far as I've shot with irons.

Scopes come in handy when shooting in poor light because they help you see the target better. As long as you stay with something with a fairly low power and long eye relief scopes are proving faster for target aquisition in rapid fire shooting.

I'd zero at 100 yards. You won't be off much at all at 50 yards and still be close enough out to 200-300 to require very little hold over.
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Old April 1, 2013, 07:37 PM   #6
big al hunter
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When you can't see the target and the sights at the same time. Other than that it's what distance you can still hit the target. . There are some out there shooting to several hundred yards with irons. My personal best was my 50 cal muzzle loader at 300 yards, shooting clay pigeons. Hit 3 clays with 8 shots ( after the 3 it took to figure out hold over. )
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Old April 1, 2013, 07:54 PM   #7
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It does indeed , depend on the eyes ! When my eyes were 20-15 I could hit what I was aiming at , most of the time . The longer the sight plain , and the smaller the aperture , the further you will be able to hit with irons . I always use a 6:00 hold , so as not to cover my target with my front sight . Peeps were my sight of choice , when my eyes were 40 years younger .
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Old April 1, 2013, 07:58 PM   #8
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It's up to the shooter. Ive seen hit's with an M1 Garand at 1050 yrds with iron sights.
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Old April 1, 2013, 08:16 PM   #9
bumnote
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Quote:
Scopes don't necessarily help you shoot significantly more accurately
I shoot with a scope so infrequently that my first 5 or shots with a scoped rifle will be awful. Just not used to it because I don't use one on a regular basis.

The spotting scope has always been more of an issue for me. I only have 2 scoped rifles, both are used for hunting. The others are mostly diopter. After 200yds, my spotting scope isn't worth a damn. Sometimes it means a lot of walking. At distances out to 300yds I'm not really any less accurate than I'd be with a scope. I've shot longer distances a few times...but lighting has to be very good. That's where the scope becomes an asset to me.

If you've got good or even semi-decent eyesight, I wouldn't be in a rush to scope it. It can be a bit more of a challenge, at first, but it is pretty rewarding when you get some tight groups at a long distance with iron sights.
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Old April 1, 2013, 10:04 PM   #10
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Since the point of a scout rifle is practical accuracy, sight the iron sights in for your preferred definition of "maximum point blank range" for your preferred load.
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Old April 1, 2013, 10:55 PM   #11
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Lets see, at what distance can you not hit a 8" pie plate target with irons?
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Old April 1, 2013, 11:59 PM   #12
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I've shot some darn good 1000 yard service rifle scores with irons on a M1A and AR.
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Old April 2, 2013, 12:58 AM   #13
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Dad's general rule

For hunting purposes anyway, my father's general rule always was that if you take the chance of injuring the animal instead of knowing exactly where your bullet or arrow is going to hit, then your shot is too far. Let the animal come a little closer. However, if you're plinking out at the range, why not get more accurate out to those distances.
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Old April 3, 2013, 05:56 PM   #14
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UPDATE: Well, circumstances didn't allow for actual solid rest - prone position - fire for groups shooting. However, I did have time for 2 boxes worth of informal plinking with my good friend Dopar66. Verdict: My new GSR is a delight; very handy, quick-handling, and it allowed me to nail a water jug at 100 yards [standing, unsupported] on my first try. My shoulder is also quite colorful today, but what the heck....I still really like my new rifle. Thanks for all the helpful responses!
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Old April 3, 2013, 07:48 PM   #15
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target size: mid-size game-

As far out as you can make a first round hit on an 8" paper plate from a field position in 10 seconds or less (time to start when you first become aware of your target.)
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Old April 3, 2013, 08:38 PM   #16
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Sounds like a good day, congrats on the new rifle.
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Old April 3, 2013, 08:45 PM   #17
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Quote: "Iron sights are good for target work at 100 yards with good eyesight. Deer hunting will double that."

My experience says that iron sights (which I love) are NOT necessarily desirable for frequently the best deer hunting times - near sunrise and sunset. Scopes (especially set on lowest maginification) pick up what little light there sometimes is and can make a huge difference in being able to identify details and make more precise shots.
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Old April 3, 2013, 09:15 PM   #18
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I should have mentioned this from the outset: I don't hunt. My GSR was bought strictly because I wanted, just once, to treat myself to a very nice rifle that I really didn't need, but rather just wanted some kind of bad. I couldn't afford a Springfield M1A, so I went with choice #2.
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Old April 4, 2013, 09:40 AM   #19
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Quote:
I recently picked up a Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle. I'm taking my first shots with it tomorrow. No scope yet, so here's my question: For sighting in, and also target shooting with iron sights on this particular rifle...how far is too far? At what distance does a short barreled .308 bolt gun genuinely NEED a scope? Thanks, guys.
With a decent rifle I think the distance a rifle with iron sights can be used depends a lot on the shooter and his abilities.

I been shooting a 1922 vintage Savage 99 in 250 savage caliber at a little over 300 yards with iron sights.
This old Savage is not pristine, the bore is a little rough, it's certainly no target rifle.
The rifle has the standard open sights plus a Lyman tang mounted aperture sight.
However the opening in the aperture is fairly large so it's not the best choice for precise target shooting.

I took an empty 1 pound propane torch bottle, painted it white and placed it 314 yards out in a bean field.
Sitting in my truck with the window down so I could use the truck door for some support for my support hand I've got lucky enough to hit that small target 3 times out of 25 shots.

Then I placed a USPSA/IPSC target at the same place as the small bottle, hit it 3 out of 3.

I've also been shooting this rifle at 100 yards standing unsupported using the open rear sight.
The target I'm shooting at is about 4x4 inches and I've managed to hit it 6 out of 10 shots.
With my advanced years, my eye sight's not as great as it once was, I'm also not as steady as I was when I was a young man.
This along with the wind conditions I was shooting in I figured I did ok.

I have another Savage 99 in 300 Savage caliber, it has iron sights also.
I've been shooting it some, so far only at 100 yards and I sure do enjoy shooting these old rifles with iron sights.

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Bob Hunter
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Old April 4, 2013, 08:28 PM   #20
PetahW
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"How far is too far ?" - the distance that 5 consecutive shots cannot be kept on a paper dinner plate.


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Old April 5, 2013, 02:22 PM   #21
Edward429451
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My son didn't have a problem shooting an Elk at about 80 or 90 yards with a Rem 700 Synthetic Youth model in 308 and peep sights. Short barrel, one shot, mmm good.
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Old April 5, 2013, 02:57 PM   #22
JD0x0
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I wouldn't condone hunting anything at these ranges but here's an idea what someone can do with iron sights at long distances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1HJP3QQv1w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8q9xv7i7bY
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Old April 5, 2013, 06:03 PM   #23
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Peep sights should be in a class of their own. I suffer from astigmatism, and stopping down the field of view really helps me get a clean focus on the front sight. With buckhorn sights I'm only good for half the distance, about 70 yards.
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Old April 6, 2013, 02:04 AM   #24
WildBill45
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With that short of a barrel the bullet will go subsonic sooner, thus the bullet will move about in the transition ... so it is not a palma rifle, but you know that. Other than that, it is up to you and your skill sets for most reasonable ranges I am sure...
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Old April 8, 2013, 11:52 AM   #25
Tom Matiska
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Depends on your eyes and what/where/when you hunt. My young eyes didn't need sights under old spike rules, but old eyes and new antler restriction make it necessary to see brow tines. I stuck with sights on my 7600 35 Whelen because bear don't have brow tines. Last half hour of the day in heavy cover the only thing I could truly see was the glow of the sights. Best brush gun is one that misses the brush. Low power light gathering scope is going on the Whelen soon.
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