The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 26, 2013, 10:55 AM   #51
Seaman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2011
Posts: 646
"I don't see why the Contender hasn't wiped out both

the big gas op autos and big bore magnum revolvers. The recoil of the things means that having a repeater is of no advantage in hunting, and it's a huge handicap for fighting. Also, of course, the bulk and weight of the things mean that they are most unlikely to be there when you need a gun. Guess it's the "look what I got" syndrome. " [roberg]


Greg Brush (Soldatna, Alaska) was surprised by a hungry 950 lb bear in full charge. Distance 15 yards.


" He was coming like a freight train…in total chase-mode.” *


Mr. Brush drew his short barreled .454 Ruger snubby, and fired 4 quick (350 gr hard cast) snap-shots from the hip.


“I know I missed the first shot, but I clearly hit him after that." *


The bear was stopped (and killed) on the spot, about 5 feet from Mr. Brush. Bear measured 10' 6" from paw to paw.

He who thinks a big-bore single shot handgun is superior to a big-bore repeater (semi-auto or revolver) is wrong.

* "Charging Bear Killed in Alaska," Field & Stream, August 17, 2009
__________________
For 20 years the sea was my home, always recall the sun going down, and my trusty friend, a 1911 pistol, strapped to my side.
Seaman is offline  
Old March 26, 2013, 12:53 PM   #52
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,621
Quote:
No, there IS a distinct advantage. You've simply decided to forgo it.
I don't have NEARLY the hunting experience as many on this forum and I admit it, but one of the few truths I have stumbled upon is: When hunting, if you miss your first shot, you have little chance of taking a clean shot on an immediate follow up.
My limited experience has taught me that if the animal doesn't immediately go down, "DRT", it is best just to let them run a little, settle and die, then trying to shoot as they run. I have hopefully participated in my last deer drive, but the ones I went on the last few years taught me a lot about shooting at running deer and other non-sense.

In the case of dangerous animals, there is a definite point. In my area there isn't really anything dangerous enough I would be in big trouble if the first shot missed. Rabid coyote at worst, and the Encore as a club or my knife will handle that. Might not be pretty though. I usually carry my Glock when hunting anyways. If I were relocating to Alaska I would definitely be rethinking some things.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is online now  
Old March 26, 2013, 12:57 PM   #53
Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 7,766
better a pocket full of 10mm, than one 50 browning when it comes to non hunting in dangerous game areas
__________________
In life you either make dust or eat dust...
Magnum Wheel Man is offline  
Old March 26, 2013, 01:37 PM   #54
newfrontier45
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2012
Posts: 921
Quote:
When hunting, if you miss your first shot, you have little chance of taking a clean shot on an immediate follow up.
I guess you've never shot multiple deer, hogs or small game in one sitting. Or missed a trotting coyote. Or made a bad shot and followed it up with a good one. What you're hearing is rhetoric from those who can't or won't.
newfrontier45 is offline  
Old March 26, 2013, 08:24 PM   #55
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 10,586
Hunting, especially handgun hunting is about sport. Sport, and ethics. I have no issue whith someone choosing a single shot for that. I have them myself. And I don't have an issue with someone who uses a single shot asking why single shots haven't "killed off" repeaters in the sporting market.

Because it is a valid question, and it has an answer. The answer is that majority of the market wants a repeater. And that is because while the object is to shoot well enough that the animal is DRT, reality steps in, and that means, no matter how well we do our part, and how hard we try, sometimes things just don't go the way we would like.

Quote:
but one of the few truths I have stumbled upon is: When hunting, if you miss your first shot, you have little chance of taking a clean shot on an immediate follow up.
Quite true, when hunting with a single shot. With a repeater, you have an option you don't have with a single shot, the option of an instant, or fast follow up shot.

When you shoot a game animal, you have a moral obligation to ensure the animal is dispatched as cleanly and humanely as possible. TO me, that includes a responsibility to do everything you can to ensure the animal does not get lost.

Quote:
My limited experience has taught me that if the animal doesn't immediately go down, "DRT", it is best just to let them run a little, settle and die, then trying to shoot as they run.
Sometimes, this is the best course of action. But each shot is different. Terrain and the reaction of the animal are big factors in making the best decision. If you are hunting in thick terrain, letting the animal run a little, settle and die might mean you never see that animal again.

Sure, shooting running game is difficult, but that doesn't mean it is non-sense. It is very much a matter of the abilities of the hunter, and the specifics of the situation. What is the right thing for one person is not always the right thing for another in a different situation.

Varmints are one thing, big game another, to me. I have tracked wounded game. I have seen wounded game lost, despite everything a party of several hunters could do. To me, that is a failed hunt. It's not a good thing, and I was taught to take every advantage I could to see that didn't happen. And that includes any follow up shot that offers itself.

I have seen many cases where a fast follow up shot made all the difference. I respect the single shot hunter, for the limitations he voluntarily puts on himself, paramount of which, in my opinion, is not shooting when one cannot be certain one shot will be enough.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old March 26, 2013, 09:23 PM   #56
seeker_two
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 31, 2002
Location: Deep in the Heart of the Lone Star State (TX)
Posts: 1,672
Question: Since the main disadvantage of a major magnum autoloader is the grip/magazine size, has anyone tried making one with a magazine forward of the pistol grip ala Mauser C96 or Tec-9?.....
__________________
Proud member of Gun Culture 2.0......
seeker_two is offline  
Old March 27, 2013, 01:08 PM   #57
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 10,586
As far as I know, no one has tried to make a pistol like that, so far.

As noted before, the problems with that are several, but except for one, more a matter of perception than reality.

First, there is the matter of sheer physical size. Putting the magazine ahead of the grip (and the chamber ahead of the magazine), and then adding a useful length barrel, AND building the thing big enough to handle a major magnum caliber and you are almost up to the length of a carbine with a folded stock. And nearly up to the weight.

The primary advantage to a magnum handgun (auto or revolver) for hunting is that they while bigger than "ordinary" handguns, they are still considerably smaller and lighter than rifles.

Look at the AR and AK "pistols". That is about what you would wind up with, although if designed from scratch, rather than using a cut down rifle as the base, it should be slightly smaller and lighter.

With more conventional pistols out there that currently do the job pretty well, your market would be very limited.

Also lots of people would be telling the world how useless the pistol would be, just like the currently do to magnum auto loaders. (see some of the comments in this thread for example)

The other major hurdle to making and selling a magnum handgun built like the C96 Mauser or Tec-9 is the government today. The original 94 AWB defined pistols that take a magazine anywhere other than in the grip as assault weapons. The several states that copied the federal law feel the same way. And the state laws did NOT sunset. I did note that the new NY law made a specific exemption for the .22 cal Olympic match pistols that their original AWB law did not.

SO, besides all the BS it will stir up with the anti's, if your planned magnum auto pistol uses a detatchable magazine, ahead of the grip, you automatically will not be able to sell it in several states.

Also there is language in those laws that if you can hold the pistol forward of the grip (and it may not have to be a specific forwaerd grip, a heat shield on the barrel makes it an assault weapon) then its a no-no as well.
And that is assuming no MORE gun control laws are passed.

All in all, the deck is stacked against it.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old April 2, 2013, 10:59 AM   #58
silvermane_1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2011
Location: Burien,WA
Posts: 355
also to add my 2 cents, we forgot about the .475 wildey/win mag., also would like to see a Desert Eagle in .480 Ruger, not much different than .50 AE except rimmed case and a little wider but same OAL IIRC.
__________________
Ruger:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlin: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE
9mm 4",Springfeild:XD .357sig 4",Llama:Super Commanche .44 mag 6",CAI PSL-54C
silvermane_1 is offline  
Old April 2, 2013, 11:08 PM   #59
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 10,586
size does matter...

Quote:
also would like to see a Desert Eagle in .480 Ruger, not much different than .50 AE except rimmed case and a little wider but same OAL
I don't think you are going to see a .480 Ruger Desert Eagle. The limiting factor isn't just the length, although that is also a limiting factor, but the rim size.

The 50AE was created with a rebated head, to keep the diameter of the head the same as the .44 Mag rim. Now that may have been done so they didn't have to make a new bolt, and so swapping between .50 AE and .44 Mag is as easy as possible, but it is also possible that you can fit a larger diameter bolt face in the Desert Eagle and maintain sufficient margin of strength.

Right now, the potential market (assuming you could fit it in the gun) is pretty small.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old April 2, 2013, 11:27 PM   #60
silvermane_1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2011
Location: Burien,WA
Posts: 355
^thanks for the info 44AMP, but i still think it would be neat to see a Desert Eagle in .480 Ruger, since the Wildey's in .475 Wildey/Win. Mag are rarer then hens teeth, but i bet if any TFL member would have one it would be you 44AMP.
__________________
Ruger:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlin: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE
9mm 4",Springfeild:XD .357sig 4",Llama:Super Commanche .44 mag 6",CAI PSL-54C
silvermane_1 is offline  
Old April 3, 2013, 09:21 AM   #61
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 10,586


My Wildey is .45 Win mag. It is slightly easier to get brass for it than the .475.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10649 seconds with 10 queries