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Old March 30, 2013, 09:04 PM   #26
TailGator
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I am another who thought the OP handled the situation well. An assailant does not have to be visibly armed in order for one to be in fear of death or serious injury. The OP was assaulted and threatened and clearly had reason to prepare to defend himself, and stopped short of applying deadly force when he was able to extricate himself from his situation.

If I understand the first post correctly, though, you drove home with your assailant following you. I would not want him to know where I lived. Be careful if he makes bail or is otherwise freed.
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Old March 30, 2013, 09:10 PM   #27
trespass
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depends

depends a lot on attitude of local law enforcement. I have known people afrfested and charged for "brandishing" or "feloniously pointing" when they pulled a firearm just to try and quiet an aggressive person. around here frankly it often seems to turn upon who gets his story to the police first...
the police and da have a kind of "leave it to the jury" attitude...
so, be careful out there...cannot depend on reasonableness anymore.
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Old March 30, 2013, 09:12 PM   #28
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Without getting into the details of the rest of the confrontation, you were very wise to call 911 right away. There's a reason that the cops made a point of telling you that your call to 911 came in first. Whether it's right or wrong, it is my understanding that the first person to call 911 in an altercation usually gets the benefit of the doubt when the police arrive on the scene.
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Old March 30, 2013, 09:33 PM   #29
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I wasn't there. You were. Given your story, I believe you handled it well.

Nice job!
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Old March 30, 2013, 09:48 PM   #30
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Just speaking for myself, I would not display a weapon as a "Warning" in a situation where a persons life was not in immediate peril.
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Old March 30, 2013, 09:49 PM   #31
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Given the described circumstance, it seems as though you handled it very well. You had no avenue of escape, which is definitely a bad place to be when confronted by violence. You didn't point the weapon directly at him, and once the situation deescalated a bit, you called the cops.

I can see where many of the people saying you may have escalated the situation in an inappropriate manner are coming from but he had already escalated the situation by cornering you. That seems to be the most pertinent piece of information that, at least in my mind, justifies your actions.
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Old March 30, 2013, 09:53 PM   #32
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I read this and immediately thought of the "4 Boxes for the Defense of Liberty: Soap, Ballot, Jury, Ammo, to be used in that order."

In a Personal defense situation, could it not be also 4 boxes :Soap, Phone*, Ammo, Jury?

You did fine from a Legal standpoint, I think, but from a tactical standlpoint, the first inkling that an attacker should have that you armed should be a pair of loud BOOM!s...... you show him a gun and if he is armed and at all competent, he can draw and fire before you decide to do the same (Action almost invariably beats Reaction).

Call 911, and show him the phone. Get away from him ASAP.


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Old March 30, 2013, 10:46 PM   #33
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You did fine. All's well that ends well. You also gave the idiot/aggressor something to think about. Next time he loses his cool, he could lose his life as well.
Quote:
We are still talking about branishing (sic) a weapon...moving a physical altercation into a potential deadly altercation.
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Old March 30, 2013, 11:23 PM   #34
kilimanjaro
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You waited too long to deploy your piece, other than that, good job. Kept calm and didn't escalate it. Good on you.

I'm not saying I would have had mine out before you, either. Hindsight always knows best, eh?
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Old March 31, 2013, 12:45 AM   #35
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From what you described, I would say you handled it extremely well and kept our wits and your cool. I live in Miami and we were rated the worst road rage in the country. If someone approached my car in and aggressive manor and started smashing at my window, they would be staring down the muzzle of my gun. I would not be "asking" him to back away. It would probably be more like "back the F up". Any sudden movement that appears to be reaching for a weapon would probably be grounds for pulling the trigger. The aggressor is outside of the vehicle where he has unrestricted movement. He has already blocked your route of escape and made verbal threats against you.

I know these things happen very quickly, but getting 911 on the phone is the most important thing. Since all 911 calls are recorded, it will serve as evidence for what transpired.

I'm glad you were not injured and I'm glad you did not have to shoot anyone. I strongly suggest you file a civil suit in top of the criminal charges for damage to our car. The next lesson that hot head learns may be his last!
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Old March 31, 2013, 12:56 AM   #36
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I have posted this before, but since we have lots of new members join all the time, I will repost a past experience.

I was on a 3 lane highway and a large SUV tried to change lanes while I was in his blind spot. I have him a quick tap of the horn to let him know I was there. He swerved out a little and then veered aggressively into my lane. If I did not slam on my brakes, he would have smashed me into the median. He then slammed on the brakes in front of me. I changed over 2 lanes and accelerated in order to create distance between us. I also drew my handgun in case he attempted to start shooting at me. He sped up to match my speed and he slowed down when I slowed down. I lowered the window and hand the gun pointed at him, but just below the window. Just then, a man in a white Nissan 300Z pulls in between us and he tells me to "go". The man stuck what I believe to be a badge out of his window. My guess he was an off duty cop who saw the whole thing. There was some traffic on the road so I didn't want get into a high speed chase and endanger others. I feel very fortunate that other guy intervened. I was probably a few seconds away from raising my gun and telling him to back the hell off. I actually had a couple of friends following me a few cars behind and he also saw the whole thing. Despite any second guessing, he said it was totally the other guy and that I did nothing to set that guy off.
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Old March 31, 2013, 01:11 AM   #37
ClydeFrog
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911/call center(s)....

I'm not a sworn LE officer or work for any public safety/homeland security agencies at this time but I can honestly tell you; 911 calls or formal notifications have little or no bearing on a LE patrol deputy, state trooper or officer's behavior-mindset in a critical incident.
Working cops like to have a beginning a middle and a end.
Who calls 911 or what goes on at a scene are just pieces of the big puzzle.

I'd add that in a event, either as a witness or active part, stay calm, do not use slang, humor or profanity. Speak slowly and clearly. DHS calls this method; plain talk.
Ive seen many many patrol deputies, agents & police officers shut down immediately when dealing with victims or crime scenes where people wig out or are in a panic.
It can be tough but if you want the law on your side, be level headed & open to the real way the US criminal justice system works.

CF
PS: I'd add here that in many locations, 911 calls are routed to a regular police dispatcher or emergency ops center. These specialists may also take radio calls, texts-soc media updates, faxes and non-emergency calls too.
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Old March 31, 2013, 02:07 AM   #38
MarkDozier
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"I'm not a sworn LE officer or work for any public safety/homeland security agencies at this time but I can honestly tell you; 911 calls or formal notifications have little or no bearing on a LE patrol deputy, state trooper or officer's behavior-mindset in a critical incident."

"Who calls 911 or what goes on at a scene are just pieces of the big puzzle."

WOW. I never realized everything that every sheriff, state partol or city cop told me was wrong.
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Old March 31, 2013, 10:22 AM   #39
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeFrog
I'm not a sworn LE officer or work for any public safety/homeland security agencies at this time but I can honestly tell you; 911 calls or formal notifications have little or no bearing on a LE patrol deputy, state trooper or officer's behavior-mindset in a critical incident.
Working cops like to have a beginning a middle and a end....
Let's see some evidence to support your contention. How would you know?
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Old April 1, 2013, 08:51 AM   #40
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Under Texas Penal Code Chapter 9 you can only threaten force when the use of force is justifiable. But by showing the weapon you threatened to use deadly force, but by law you did not use deadly force.

Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

in short your just letting your road buddy there know that "if you insist on continuing this behavior I will ruin your day" - perfectly legal as long as your not the one who initiated the drama.
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Old April 1, 2013, 10:08 AM   #41
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I think OP handled the situation perfectly. When armed, first and best response to any situation is to avoid the situation. One can be deadly unarmed, but one is certainly deadly when armed with a gun.

Just fyi, car window is lot harder than most think and an elbow into it when closed will not break the window in most cases (unless done at perfect angle and strength).
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Old April 1, 2013, 11:26 AM   #42
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Sounds like a cell phone video would have been a good idea.
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Old April 1, 2013, 11:43 AM   #43
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it is the consensus among the majority of people in this thread that displying a handgun to warn away from a "fist fight" or minor property damage is the proper course of action?
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Old April 1, 2013, 01:42 PM   #44
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Quote:
it is the consensus among the majority of people in this thread that displying a handgun to warn away from a "fist fight" or minor property damage is the proper course of action?
I don't remember anyone saying that; I remember several posts, including one of mine which was very explicit, stating that they believed a threat of serious harm existed in the assailants actions.
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Old April 1, 2013, 02:04 PM   #45
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Drew my handgun in car...right/wrong response?

I drew down on a fellow once...it's amazing how fast they retreat. I had warned him several times to turn around without showing the pistol...after about the third time I drew, he turned an walked away. I too called the cops and he was arrested.

You handled it properly in my opinion.
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Old April 1, 2013, 02:18 PM   #46
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Ok I am a sworn law enforcement officer and in my opinion everything he did was correct. First he called 911 and identified that he was the victim. When we are dispatched to a call for service it is the dispatcher that tells me what was reported and by whom. The dispatcher is my lifeline if you don't think his or her opinion is important then you are very wrong. To be honest it's all in how you report it. In other words when I get to him to take his report if he is visibly shaken then I note that in my report. If he is standing there telling me he knows BJJ and Krav Magaw and could have taken that guy then I’m going to ask why he displayed a firearm if he was not in fear for his life. Remember repeat after me; I was in fear for my life and I did what was necessary to survive the situation and be prepared to explain why you were in fear for your life.
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Old April 1, 2013, 02:56 PM   #47
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A dash cam might not be a bad idea for documenting what "really" happened.
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Old April 1, 2013, 03:20 PM   #48
cgaengineer
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Drew my handgun in car...right/wrong response?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slopemeno View Post
A dash cam might not be a bad idea for documenting what "really" happened.
That would be great...if the general population had a dash cam.
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Old April 1, 2013, 03:26 PM   #49
grizz223
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Almost all smart phones have the ability to record video on them. That would be very smart if you were to record his agression towards you and play it back to the responding Officers.
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Old April 1, 2013, 03:46 PM   #50
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Let's get real guys, I think he did the right thing.

The idea of doing a cell phone video while holding a gun and dealing with an irate person seems just too ludicrous to be taken seriously.
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