The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 6, 2011, 10:23 PM   #1
ClemBert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2009
Location: Orlando
Posts: 929
Chrony results: .45 BPM

I took the Walker out today to do a test drive of the new chrony. I fired quite a few rounds through the Walker today...both .45 Colt and .45 BPM. The results posted here are very preliminary. I had the Walker sitting back 15 feet from the chrony. When I got up to the 52 grain .45 BPM rounds I started having quite a bit of difficultly with unrecorded/error reports. I had thought it was the position of the sun causing all the problems but I confirmed it was the big loudenboomers. When I dropped back to firing .45 Colt rounds everything was recorded fine. Next time I go out I'm gonna drop back another 5 feet to 20 feet total.

I wouldn't try to draw any conclusions based on these results. They are mostly posted for grins. I need to go back and analyze the results a bit more. Mostly, I just need to get back out there and fire more rounds.

The .45 BPM is fairly respectable. However, I see how it is that the .357 Magnum took the cake in 1934 with that heathen powder.


Last edited by ClemBert; April 6, 2011 at 10:52 PM.
ClemBert is offline  
Old April 12, 2011, 01:56 PM   #2
Rachen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: I go where the oilfield jobs go.
Posts: 311
Wow! It seems that some of your .45 BPM loads even surpass the .357 Mag (Factory loads vary from one mfg. to the other)

With Swiss FFFg and a roundball, the Walker easily beats a .357 factory load in both velocity and stopping power department.

One question though: Would your BPM loads wreck havoc on the barrel wedge of the Walker? With such pressure coming to bear on that open top frame, I'd imagine the wedge and the arbor pin is taking one heck of a beating.
__________________
http://unnamed-heroes.com
MARTYRS: A story about true love. Every man has something that he is willing to fight to the death for. What about YOU?
COMBAT BLADES:
http://www.knifecombat.wordpress.com
Rachen is offline  
Old April 12, 2011, 08:51 PM   #3
ClemBert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2009
Location: Orlando
Posts: 929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachen
One question though: Would your BPM loads wreck havoc on the barrel wedge of the Walker? With such pressure coming to bear on that open top frame, I'd imagine the wedge and the arbor pin is taking one heck of a beating.
I have not yet observed any negative effects on the wedge or arbor. You'll note that I've taken into consideration the bullet mass versus the charge amount. The 141 grain roundball with 60 grains of BP is the exact max charge that the revolver in cap-n-ball mode is designed to handle. That's the rumor anyway. The 150 grain bullet is as close an approximation that one can get with a conical style bullet. The decreasing Bp charges for the increasing bullet weight are meant to minimize the risk of wedge/arbor damage.

Not sure what the results would be with Swiss but as you indicate there most likely would be an increase in performance.
ClemBert is offline  
Old April 13, 2011, 12:36 PM   #4
Rachen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: I go where the oilfield jobs go.
Posts: 311
Quote:
I have not yet observed any negative effects on the wedge or arbor. You'll note that I've taken into consideration the bullet mass versus the charge amount. The 141 grain roundball with 60 grains of BP is the exact max charge that the revolver in cap-n-ball mode is designed to handle. That's the rumor anyway. The 150 grain bullet is as close an approximation that one can get with a conical style bullet. The decreasing Bp charges for the increasing bullet weight are meant to minimize the risk of wedge/arbor damage.

Not sure what the results would be with Swiss but as you indicate there most likely would be an increase in performance.
I've always wanted to get a Walker, prefer carrying a big bore pistol rather than a heavy rifle when camping in the hill country, but kept putting it off, because from diagrams I've seen, the arbor is not replaceable in case it get damaged, and I don't want to risk ruining a pricey gun due to that little part.
__________________
http://unnamed-heroes.com
MARTYRS: A story about true love. Every man has something that he is willing to fight to the death for. What about YOU?
COMBAT BLADES:
http://www.knifecombat.wordpress.com
Rachen is offline  
Old April 13, 2011, 03:27 PM   #5
ClemBert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2009
Location: Orlando
Posts: 929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachen
I've always wanted to get a Walker, prefer carrying a big bore pistol rather than a heavy rifle when camping in the hill country, but kept putting it off, because from diagrams I've seen, the arbor is not replaceable in case it get damaged, and I don't want to risk ruining a pricey gun due to that little part.
Well, you don't have to fire maximum loads out of a Walker. It is fun to shoot with 50 grains of BP. The only reports I recall of damage to the wedge or arbor were on Walkers made by Armi San Marco (ASM). This occured with repeated firings with 60 grains of BP and a round ball. I suspect not all ASM Walkers have this problems but it's probably limited to some that got out of the factory with improperly heated treated steel. Just a guess.
ClemBert is offline  
Old April 13, 2011, 04:25 PM   #6
Rachen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: I go where the oilfield jobs go.
Posts: 311
Quote:
Well, you don't have to fire maximum loads out of a Walker. It is fun to shoot with 50 grains of BP. The only reports I recall of damage to the wedge or arbor were on Walkers made by Armi San Marco (ASM). This occured with repeated firings with 60 grains of BP and a round ball. I suspect not all ASM Walkers have this problems but it's probably limited to some that got out of the factory with improperly heated treated steel. Just a guess.
I plan to use the Walker as a hunting gun when camped in the highlands. I like wearing my regular .45 LC Remington on my hip and then the Walker in a shoulder rig, and use all the packs and bags for just gear/fuel/tools instead of a rifle and heavier ammunition. 50 grains sound like a good idea since some shooters claimed that 60grs didn't givve them much noticeable increase in velocity compared to 50 grains.

One question I have: Is your Walker's arbor screwed onto the frame as well as pinned? If damage occurs, is it replaceable? If I do get one, should I bring a spare arbor since I usually live out in the high country for months at a time.
__________________
http://unnamed-heroes.com
MARTYRS: A story about true love. Every man has something that he is willing to fight to the death for. What about YOU?
COMBAT BLADES:
http://www.knifecombat.wordpress.com
Rachen is offline  
Old April 13, 2011, 04:38 PM   #7
ClemBert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2009
Location: Orlando
Posts: 929
This discussion is getting a bit off topic. If you don't mind post your Walker questions here. Plenty of folks to help you with your Walker specific questions. I'm not aware of a similar Walker specific thread here that has as many folks following it.
ClemBert is offline  
Old April 14, 2011, 04:28 PM   #8
ClemBert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2009
Location: Orlando
Posts: 929
When I last left this I had loaded up a tray of new .45 BPM cartridges with the intent on finding out if higher BP compression could increase performance. I ended up with a mixed bag. Here are the latest chrony results.



The performance of the 46 grain FFFg cartridge with 250 grain BigLube got a nice bump from higher compression. The velocity went up from 972 to 1014. It's only a 4% gain but it was nice to consistently be over the 1000 ft/sec mark.

I tried out a 48 grain version with the same bullet and also got nice results. 1032 ft/sec with the energy approaching 600 ft-lbs.

The performance of the 55 grain FFFg cartridge wtih 150 grain Biglube actually went down. I guess there is a point when the powder has just been compressed too much. Did I squeeze all the oxygen out of the cartridge? The drop was fairly significant IMHO. 1392 ft/sec (1/8" compression) down to 1232 ft/sec (3/8" compression)...an 11% drop! That extra 1/4" of compression really dumbed it down.

There really wasn't a change for the 60 grain FFFg loads. While I did manage to compress the powder more there really wasn't a whole lot more I could compress. With 60 grain FFFg you have to use a drop tube just to get it into the cartridge without it spilling out everywhere. By the time you compress the powder down for the bullet you've already compressed it pretty darn good.

I think I'll be as bold as to start to formulate some conclusions:

1. There isn't much to be gained with going over 55 grains of FFFg. 60 grains FFFg makes for a little more smoke-n-boom but there isn't a great performance increase with either the 141 roundball or 150 BigLube bullet.

2. 48 grains of FFFg and a 250 grain BigLube bullet makes for an excellent load. 591 ft/lbs energy

3. 52 grains of FFFg and a 200 grain BigLube bullet makes for an excellent load. 598 ft/lbs energy

4. 55 grains of FFFg and a 150 grain BigLube bullet makes for an excellent load. 577 ft/lbs energy

5. Roundball loads are not worthwhile as the 150 grain BigLube bullet gives similar performance and also provides for a lube groove whereas the roundball cartridge provides no lube. The roundball is also more difficult to load into a cartridge and potentially creates a concern that the ball will jar loose under recoil.

6. 60 grains loads are for the pure pleasure of making the most possible smoke-n-boom and freaking smokeless heathens out of their wits.

Once again, I did not observe any damage to the wedge or arbor of the Walker. I did however notice that every single daggum screw on the Walker was loose by the time I was done. :banghead: Even the trigger/bolt springs's screw was backing out.
ClemBert is offline  
Old April 15, 2011, 01:18 PM   #9
Rachen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: I go where the oilfield jobs go.
Posts: 311
Quote:
Once again, I did not observe any damage to the wedge or arbor of the Walker. I did however notice that every single daggum screw on the Walker was loose by the time I was done. :banghead: Even the trigger/bolt springs's screw was backing out.
Whew! That arbor must have been built from some kind of industrial alloy. Got to be. Maybe some kind of automotive metal used in the suspension systems of mountain-road ore trucks.
__________________
http://unnamed-heroes.com
MARTYRS: A story about true love. Every man has something that he is willing to fight to the death for. What about YOU?
COMBAT BLADES:
http://www.knifecombat.wordpress.com
Rachen is offline  
Old March 27, 2013, 10:40 AM   #10
TemboTusk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2012
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 126
I hope you don't mind me bringing back this thread from the deep freeze.

Have you tried finding a comparable smokeless load to safely work with the 45 BPM shell. Or, can that be achieved through the regular 45 colt shell?

I enjoy shooting both BP and smokeless through my Walker, but the range I shoot at is indoor and does not allow BP. Factory Winchester Cowboy ammo or Trail Boss hand loads in the 45 Colt shells feel a bit anemic in the Walker and I would like to get your thoughts & direction on working up a load to approximate a 50 or 60 grain BP load in smokeless powder.
TemboTusk is offline  
Old March 27, 2013, 09:33 PM   #11
ClemBert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2009
Location: Orlando
Posts: 929
I definitely do not recommend use of smokeless powder in .45 BPM. It is just not necessary when you can shoot 45 Colt in smokeless. And....you'll recall that for smokeless 45 Colt loads you'll want to make sure they are loaded as "Cowboy Loads". JMHO...
ClemBert is offline  
Old March 27, 2013, 10:48 PM   #12
TemboTusk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2012
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 126
OK, that makes sense. Use of the BPM is the only way to get close to an orignal full load with black powder in shells.

I would like to get a smokless load to mirror a 50+ grain BP load.
TemboTusk is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09468 seconds with 9 queries