The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 22, 2013, 05:59 PM   #1
Rigmarol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 341
Black Powder and Progressive presses

I want to use my Dillon 550b to load up black powder .45colt cartridges for CAS.
I've loaded up a couple hundred by hand on a single stage and I don't want to do it that way if I can do it on my progressive.

I read that Dillon says not to use their powder system with black powder and I hear of reloaders who say "pish-posh I've been doing it for a hunerd years and I ain't blowed up yet!"

I don't like to go contrary to the manufacturers' warnings so I'm asking if anyone has a suggestion on how to use the progressive with black powder.

Does anyone make an approved powder system that can be used on the Dillon 550b?

Thanks.
Rigmarol is online now  
Old March 23, 2013, 05:18 PM   #2
Rigmarol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 341
Bump

130+ views and no replies.... Maybe the progressive and black powder isn't a good idea after all?

I was hoping someone knew of a sparkless non static inducing powder system for the Dillon...
Rigmarol is online now  
Old March 23, 2013, 05:33 PM   #3
salvadore
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 1, 2007
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,864
I believe,don't quote me, that rcbs came out and said BP could beused in their powder hopper, but I haven't seen any statement from Dillon. Why not call them?
salvadore is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 05:36 PM   #4
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,753
Static wont set bp off. The problem as I see it is getting enough powder in the case. Traditionally bp is loaded with a drop tube so powder settles uniformly. Some vibrate the case to settle powder.
Hawg is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 05:59 PM   #5
Bishop Creek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Posts: 221
Where I live, we have very low humidity (4% out right now) so I won't risk static setting the powder off, which is why I use a Lee Turret press. Quicker to use than a single stage press.
Bishop Creek is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 06:11 PM   #6
Hardcase
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2009
Location: Sunny Southern Idaho
Posts: 1,909
I'm with Hawg, I don't think that a modern powder thrower is going to load up the case properly. I suppose that if you could rig up some kind of drop tube and stand for the thrower, you could get it to work. We know that static won't set black powder off.

I load mine on a turret press and just pull the case out right before seating the bullet and add powder.
__________________
Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae
Hardcase is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 06:41 PM   #7
Fingers McGee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,860
Quote:
Traditionally bp is loaded with a drop tube so powder settles uniformly. Some vibrate the case to settle powder.
Long range BPCR maybe; but drop tubes and vibrators are wholly unnceessary for pistol caliber loads. They are dispensed by a powder measure or dipping with Lee or other powder dippers.

I've been using a Hornady L-N-L progressive press to load BP using smokeless and BP powder measures for years. Also load my shotgun shells on a MEC Sizemaster with an adjustable powder/shot bar.
__________________
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
Fingers McGee is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 07:14 PM   #8
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,753
That's good to know. Thanks Fingers. Guess I've been doing it the hard way.
Hawg is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 07:20 PM   #9
Rigmarol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 341
Thanks guys, I was beginning to think you were out doing other things, lol.

I load BP rifle cartridges for my Sharps and use a drop tube. But I don't see the need for my CAS .45Colt loads. They load fine with a Lee dipper, so I believe, if safe, a powder measure would be good too. I'm just worried about blowing up my shop.

I want to speed up the process. I'm also using a turret Press right now. It's nice but why not speed things up if possible, and safe of course.
Rigmarol is online now  
Old March 23, 2013, 08:00 PM   #10
Rigmarol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 341
I think I may have found my answer.

I think I'm going to get the RCBS Black Powder measure:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/837...powder-measure

And Dillon's powder measure adapter:
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/con...easure_Adapter
Rigmarol is online now  
Old March 24, 2013, 01:24 PM   #11
TomADC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Posts: 556
I load45-70 with my 550B but I pull the pin at station two so I can remove the case and charge the powder with a Lyman 55 and a drop tube, if I was using less powder I'd used the Dillon powder measure. Lots of folks over at cast bollets use the Dillon powder measure without problems.
__________________
US Navy Retired,NRA Life Member,SASS member, Time magazine's Person of the Year 2006!
TomADC is offline  
Old March 24, 2013, 06:28 PM   #12
Rigmarol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 341
I guess I can drop over there and see what they have to say too. Thanks.

It's all about going against the manufacturer's warning that has me all doubtful and such. I'm curious if anyone has actually ignited a powder measure with black powder. The warning has to come from somewhere... doesn't it?

Thanks, I go take a look over on Castboolits.
Rigmarol is online now  
Old March 24, 2013, 06:33 PM   #13
TomADC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Posts: 556
They had the same discussion over there, I don't believe you can set BP off via static electricity.
__________________
US Navy Retired,NRA Life Member,SASS member, Time magazine's Person of the Year 2006!
TomADC is offline  
Old March 24, 2013, 07:16 PM   #14
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,753
Check it out.

http://youtu.be/-5Z5yAeO3dw
Hawg is offline  
Old March 24, 2013, 07:44 PM   #15
B.L.E.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX
Posts: 1,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigmarol
It's all about going against the manufacturer's warning that has me all doubtful and such. I'm curious if anyone has actually ignited a powder measure with black powder. The warning has to come from somewhere... doesn't it?
If you read the instruction manual of a lot of firearms made today, you will see a warning not to use reloaded ammo too.
A lot of it is defensive CYA for this litiguous society.
It's extremely unlikely that a powder measurer will ignite black powder but if it ever does happen, you know who will be sued, even if the guy doing the reloading was drunk and had a lit cigarette in his mouth.
B.L.E. is offline  
Old March 24, 2013, 07:57 PM   #16
Rigmarol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 341
Nice video, I've seen a half dozen or more videos similar.
All claim you can't ignite BP with static electricity.

I understand CYA procedures and warnings but I would sure like to hear of an actual detonation to hang this on.

I went to Castboolits and searched on black powder and dillon and variation on this and came up with nothing. I got tired of trying searches and scanning for the info. I'll try again another time.

In the mean time, I sent off an email to dillon asking if they can give me a good reason not to use BP in their power system.
Rigmarol is online now  
Old March 25, 2013, 07:25 AM   #17
maillemaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2010
Posts: 1,025
I was looking into a BP powder measure. I'm tired of loading all my N-SSA cartridges by weighing each load on a scale.

You've got the Lyman #55 powder measure for $83, and then the Lyman #55 for black powder for about $140. The only difference I can see is that the one for BP is made with an aluminum powder hopper.

Goex just recently switched from metal cans to plastic.

I would really like to know if the whole thing is about static and if the plastic is the only difference.

I've heard people say they've measured BP with the plastic powder measure but they have to clean it after every use. Why?

Steve
maillemaker is offline  
Old March 25, 2013, 10:57 AM   #18
Fingers McGee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by maillemaker
I've heard people say they've measured BP with the plastic powder measure but they have to clean it after every use. Why?
The reason for cleaning the Hornady, Lyman and RCBS powder measures after each use is not the plastic hopper. It's the hygroscopic or corrosive nature of BP and substitutes that freezes the rotors. APP being the worst - it'l lock up a rotor while in use -, and real BP being the most forgivng.

I've never used a Lee powder measure so cannot speak to the necessity of cleaning them after use.
__________________
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
Fingers McGee is offline  
Old March 25, 2013, 11:13 AM   #19
maillemaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2010
Posts: 1,025
But I thought I remembered "hearing" that BP is not hygroscopic - only burned BP residue is?

Edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder

Talks about being hygroscopic.

Steve

Last edited by maillemaker; March 25, 2013 at 11:19 AM.
maillemaker is offline  
Old March 25, 2013, 05:43 PM   #20
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,753
From your Wiki link.

Because corned black powder grains made with saltpeter are less affected by moisture in the air, they can be stored unsealed without degradation by humidity.

the residue from burnt black powder is hygroscopic and with the addition of moisture absorbed from the air, this residue forms a caustic substance.
Hawg is offline  
Old March 25, 2013, 09:55 PM   #21
Rigmarol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 341
From what I have found, the BP measure is not only non plastic hopper but the drum is brass not steel.

At least with the RCBS model I'm looking at.
Rigmarol is online now  
Old March 26, 2013, 10:38 AM   #22
Noz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2009
Posts: 643
maillemaker.
A simple device that you can make. Weigh a powder charge. Dump into an empty case a little larger than the caliber you are using. Mark the empty and cut it off to that mark. Solder a piece of heavy copper wire onto the cut off case and VOILA you have a custom made powder measure. Dip it into the selected powder and fill your cases.
Noz is offline  
Old March 26, 2013, 12:08 PM   #23
Fingers McGee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,860
According to the GOEX MSDS

"When dry, black powder is compatible with most metals; however, it is hygroscopic and when wet, attacks all common metals except stainless steel.

http://goexpowder.com/images/LoadCha...A-Blasting.pdf
__________________
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
Fingers McGee is offline  
Old March 26, 2013, 12:36 PM   #24
maillemaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2010
Posts: 1,025
Quote:
A simple device that you can make. Weigh a powder charge. Dump into an empty case a little larger than the caliber you are using. Mark the empty and cut it off to that mark. Solder a piece of heavy copper wire onto the cut off case and VOILA you have a custom made powder measure. Dip it into the selected powder and fill your cases.
I've done this already - I have a little plastic vial that I have cut at just the right size for 48 grains of powder. Problem is, as you shake it around you get inconsistent results. Probably +/- 2 grains? I try to keep my charges +/- .2 grains.

I think a mechanical dispenser would be fairly repeatable once you set it up to dispense a certain charge. I know the smokeless dispenser on my Lee Pro 1000 is extremely repeatable. Probably within +/- .1 grains.

Steve
maillemaker is offline  
Old April 4, 2013, 08:28 PM   #25
Rigmarol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 341
My letter to Dillon:

Quote:
I'm a happy user of the Dillon 550b. Great product.

I'm writing today to ask about using Black Powder in your powder measure. I know the advice is to NOT use black powder to avoid static electricity and detonation of the powder.

However, I keep finding other Dillon users who are successfully using their Dillon powder measures with black powder and the keep telling me I shouldn't worry about it.

I'm sure you have a good reason for this warning and I'm curious if you have specific cases where users have detonated their powder measures while using black powder?

I have also read and watched YouTube video that supposedly disproves that black powder is sensitive to static electricity.

Can you provide your best reasons for saying not to use black powder in your powder measures?

Thanks, I appreciate your fine products and top notch customer support.
Dillon's reply:

Quote:
Using black powder in our measure is not recommended. Doing so voids the warranty. Black powder has a much lower spark ignition temperature than smokeless powder. There are steel parts on our powder measure. Use an approved after market black powder measure as sold bu Lyman or Hornady.

Thank you,

Dillon Precision Products, Inc.
... not much help.
Rigmarol is online now  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12275 seconds with 9 queries