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Old March 22, 2013, 03:21 PM   #101
carguychris
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The only person whose name is on this bill is Chuck Schumer. No other Senator chose to co-sponsor it.
Considering that this bill could make Boy Scouts and adult leaders into federal felons if they conduct training for the Rifle Shooting and Shotgun Shooting merit badges in the wrong place- I don't blame the other 99 senators!

Seldom do I read something that makes me so mad I could spit.

This bill did it.
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Old March 22, 2013, 09:22 PM   #102
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The governments in most other countries manage to enforce registration and i am sure America could do if they wanted to.
Actually, enforcement in the UK and Australia has been pathetic, with around 20% compliance rates.

The thing is, you don't have to go door-to-door to enforce such a thing. You just have to bust a few people now and then to have a chilling effect. Jim Bob can't find the paperwork for that gun he's shooting at the range? Easy bust. Single inner-city mom shoots an intruder with an unregistered gun? Easy bust.

Journalist gets caught waving one around on the air? Oops. Prosecution wouldn't serve the public interest. Expect enforcement to be very selective and inherently unfair.
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Old March 23, 2013, 07:25 AM   #103
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Actually, enforcement in the UK and Australia has been pathetic, with around 20% compliance rates.
You can't legally buy a firearm in the UK without a firearms certificate. When you buy the firearm from a dealer the proof of purchase has to be sent with the firearms certificate and number of the firearm to the police firearms unit for approval. If its a handgun then it goes for a ballistic test that will be kept so a bullet can be traced back to the firearm. So all legally bought firearms are registered. So if you are caught with a unregistered firearm there is a good chance you will be going to jail.

Quote If found guilty the penalty for possession of a prohibited firearm without a certificate is a maximum of ten years in prison and an uncapped fine. Unauthorised possession of most kinds of firearm attract a mandatory minimum of five years.

PS I know the thought of having similar checks in America would not go down well to put it mildly.
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Old March 23, 2013, 07:28 AM   #104
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The topic of the thread is: Universal Background Checks Passed Committee

Can we get back to that?
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Old March 23, 2013, 07:34 AM   #105
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Quote:
The topic of the thread is: Universal Background Checks Passed Committee

Can we get back to that?
Is that directed towards me everyone or the moderator who's post bellow i was replying to.

Quote:
Actually, enforcement in the UK and Australia has been pathetic, with around 20% compliance rates.
My post is showing what can happen further down the road if universal checks are passed. Which i think is on topic.

Last edited by manta49; March 23, 2013 at 07:41 AM.
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Old March 23, 2013, 07:40 AM   #106
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Everyone, Manta. Everyone.
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Old March 23, 2013, 07:42 AM   #107
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Everyone, Manta. Everyone.
Fair enough.
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Old March 23, 2013, 08:43 AM   #108
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While the recordkeeping provisions of Schumer's bill are unacceptable, I was surprised that I did not see any reports that Coburn had objected to background checks for "temporary transfers."
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Old March 23, 2013, 06:08 PM   #109
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The bill submitted is only related to the one being worked on by the gang of four- Manchin, Schumer, Coburn, and Kirk- in that Schumer worked on both. What he submitted was in no other way related to what was being worked on by all four. I've read that he submitted something that was basically something he'd kept in his backpocket and submitted and refined several times.
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Old April 4, 2013, 07:50 AM   #110
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I heard an interview recently of someone who was very high up in government and has many connections there (military & intelligence) - Dr. Steve Pieczenik. He said that they can make all sorts of royal decrees out of Washington. But, they don't have the resources on the ground at the local level to enforce it. This is not about 'safety' at all. Your odds of being a victim of a mass shooting are less than being struck by lightning. Gun control is all about CONTROL. Universal background checks are all about registration and eventual confiscation. Do any research on the experience of other countries and its obvious that the stated goals of safety/less crime were never achieved and violent crime went up. Do research on the previous Assault Weapons Ban impact on crime and you'll see that it did nothing. And when it was repealed there was no impact at all. American gun owners will decide this issue, not any lackeys in Congress. You can find anti 2A actions over the years from both parties. These are the same people who passed Obamacare, continue to fund it, and exempt themselves from it. They will continue to play the 'right' vs 'left', 'Dem' vs 'Repub' game in Washington - - - at the same time making the federal govt bigger and more intrusive on Liberty. The question they seem to ask is What level of outrage will the American people go along with ?
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Old April 4, 2013, 08:38 AM   #111
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On a bright note, believe it or not, the ACLU is actually taking our side on this issue. I heard it this morning on FOX
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Old April 5, 2013, 05:50 PM   #112
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Article today regarding Universal Background Checks

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ons-dave-kopel

Didn't see the posted anywhere else on this site. It's very important we not let up and continue to contact our representatives on this important issue. The bill regarding Universal Background Checks that has so much support (if you can call it that) is worded very carefully to turn most of us into felons, it involves much more than just selling a gun in a private transfer as this article points out. If the proposed law were to pass you would not even be able to lend a gun to your spouse at the shooting range without committing a felony.
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Old April 5, 2013, 07:29 PM   #113
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Yeah we've discussed this in a couple threads. And it depends on the range. A more accurate complaint is it would be a crime to load your spouse's rifle in your trunk to carpool to the range.
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Old April 7, 2013, 11:18 PM   #114
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Ok, the Senate returns this week and the anti-gun crowd will be making a big push. Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia is reportedly teaming up with Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania to come up with another background check bill they hope will be more acceptable than Schumer's Bill. Some Senators that support the Second Amendment are discussing procedural tactics to slow or stop the process. However, they’ll be a lot of pressure to allow a vote as Senator McCain is already stating.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...migration-gun/

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ate/?hpt=hp_t2
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Last edited by BarryLee; April 7, 2013 at 11:41 PM. Reason: Added link to McCain's comment
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Old April 8, 2013, 03:58 AM   #115
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Better beat the horse dead and shove it down all the major news outlets so CNN doesn't talk about the economy.
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Old April 8, 2013, 07:43 AM   #116
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From the CNN article:

Quote:
The additional names include Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Florida; Sen. James Inhofe, R-Oklahoma; Sen. Jerry Moran, R-Kansas; Sen. Richard Burr, R-North Carolina, Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wisconsin; Sen. Mike Enzi, R-Wyoming; Sen. James Risch, R-Idaho; Sen. Mike Crapo, R-Idaho, Sen. Dan Coats, R-Indiana, and Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kansas.
Nice to see my letter writing pay off. Both Idaho Senators are now backing Rand Paul, Mike Lee and Ted Cruz!
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Old April 8, 2013, 09:14 AM   #117
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I don't believe the majority of gun owners who support universal background checks will comply with the law if it is passed because they won't believe universal background checks apply to Grandpa's hunting rifle or Grandma's .410 shotgun.
EDIT: Just look at how many people come to forums and get surprised when they find out they broke the law when their family member in another state gave them their old hunting guns.
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Old April 8, 2013, 01:48 PM   #118
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Nice to see my letter writing pay off.
It's nice to see Crapo coming back around. In the past, he's been a very vocal supporter of ours, and I was worried to see him wavering back in January.

Quote:
I don't believe the majority of gun owners who support universal background checks will comply with the law if it is passed because they won't believe universal background checks apply to Grandpa's hunting rifle or Grandma's .410 shotgun.
We need only look at Canada, whose long-gun registry was utterly ignored by the population in general. It's estimated that less than 20% of rifles were ever registered there. The registry had no effect on crime, and its only legacy was a budget overrun of almost 1000%.

The biggest issue with this law is that it will do nothing to stop violent crime. It will only serve to generate prosecutions of otherwise law-abiding people on statutory violations.
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Old April 8, 2013, 09:10 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo
It's nice to see Crapo coming back around. In the past, he's been a very vocal supporter of ours, and I was worried to see him wavering back in January.
That wasn't Crapo. It was Risch.
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Old April 8, 2013, 09:57 PM   #120
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"I don't believe the majority of gun owners who support universal background checks will comply with the law if it is passed because they won't believe universal background checks apply to Grandpa's hunting rifle or Grandma's .410 shotgun."

If Grandpa's & Grandma's rifles and shotguns were made before the date of the law, how can the law be enforced?
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Old April 8, 2013, 10:42 PM   #121
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The only way it will work is with registration. From my experience, a lot of people who have bought guns at their local store thought the form was registration. Those people won't think twice about supporting real, national registration. When registration starts, those people won't register their guns because they think they already have. More accidental felons.
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Old April 9, 2013, 10:42 AM   #122
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They used form 4473s from gunshops to help them weed out those in New Orleans who were likely to have guns after Hurricane Katrina.
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Old April 9, 2013, 11:08 AM   #123
carguychris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndsojourn
If Grandpa's & Grandma's rifles and shotguns were made before the date of the law, how can the law be enforced?
This problem is particularly acute if you consider the millions of pre-GCA rifles and shotguns that were produced without serial numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickmn
From my experience, a lot of people who have bought guns at their local store thought the form was registration. Those people won't think twice about supporting real, national registration. When registration starts, those people won't register their guns because they think they already have. More accidental felons.
I hadn't considered that, but IMHO you're right- that's a very serious potential problem.

Other potential and similar issues with registration, 2A issues aside:
  • People may confuse state registration with federal registration. (Do NOT assume that states will readily hand their registries over to the Feds, even the vehemently anti-gun states.)
  • The registry will inevitably wind up rife with errors. There will be registry entries for a Ruger model "253-654xx" rifle with serial number "10-22", and for a S&W model ".38 S&W SPECIAL CTG." revolver with serial number "MOD 10-6".
  • People may assume that a deceased relative "registered" the firearm, and that this registration (magically) carries over to them because their relative's will was recorded at the county courthouse.
  • Con artists may begin fraudulent "registration services" to scam people out of their money and/or find out where the desirable firearms are located so they can burglarize owners' homes.
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Old April 9, 2013, 07:35 PM   #124
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TOOMEY FOLDS ON UBC, JOINS SCHUMER, MANCHIN AND KIRK IN COMPROMISE BILL

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...mey-89806.html

Apparently, there will be a press release tomorrow announcing the compromise deal. Currently, 14 Republicans are filibustering any debate on S.649 (the base gun control bil by opposing the motion to proceedl). Reid will have a cloture vote on Thursday. If he gets 60 votes, he will open the bill to amendments from the floor and they will debate and vote on amendments (including this one from Toomey). Once they have voted on all amendments we will have one more chance to filibuster (the motion to end debate) the entire amended bill.
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Old April 9, 2013, 07:40 PM   #125
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Crud.
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