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Old March 16, 2013, 07:08 AM   #1
rebs
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5.56 green tip ammo ?

A friend gave me 4 boxes of 50 of these reloads from the Maine Cartridge company. I had read where this company had problems with their reloads so I pulled them all and dumped the powder. I reloaded a few with 24.0 gr of H335 and an OAL of 2.255 and they were not very accurate. Whatever the powder was that was in them was 22.0 gr
Has anyone found a more accurate load for them or are they just inherently inaccurate ?
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Old March 16, 2013, 09:44 AM   #2
Nathan
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What is inaccurate? That SS109 bullet is not going to give 1" 100 yd groups most of the time.

I got 3-4" groups the last time I played with it.
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Old March 16, 2013, 11:35 AM   #3
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Quote:
What is inaccurate? That SS109 bullet is not going to give 1" 100 yd groups most of the time.

I got 3-4" groups the last time I played with it.
I get a little better at 2 - 3" groups
Just curious if it would be worth trying different OAL or powder or amount of powder ?
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Old March 16, 2013, 11:41 AM   #4
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Rebs...that's about what I got from some I had as well. 2-3" gps at 100, with standard post and peep AR 15 sights....I can hold better than that...usually get sub 2" with Sierra 69 gr HPMK's. It's the bullets themselves...I used up some getting my positions stabilized for CMP over the course competition, then gave the last 250 or so to a pal who's just bought an AR.

BTW, I tried 748, Rx15, 4064 and 2520 powders with them...all are usually good with any good bullet but with no improvement with the green tips.

Just one other comment...I won't shoot anyone else's reloads...friend, enemy, brother in law, sons...nobody....just sayin'

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Old March 16, 2013, 02:03 PM   #5
rebs
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Just one other comment...I won't shoot anyone else's reloads...friend, enemy, brother in law, sons...nobody....just sayin'
Yep that is why I pulled them and dumped the powder over the lawn. I had no idea what powder it was and wasn't taking a chance.
Are these bullets considered armor piercing ? If so I have to get rid of them quickly.
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Old March 16, 2013, 04:39 PM   #6
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Not knowing the load/loader, I would also pull the bullets and do 'it my way'.

As for getting better accuracy with the M855 (USGI bullets), I've tried and tried with them. I don't think they were intended to be very accurate. The designers wanted to 'get close' and for the bullets to loose stability and tumble, preferably in tissue. The structure of the bullet is a lead core with a steel 'perpetrator' shell, covered with standard/regular jacketing materials.
For me, they don't even make good 'garbage' loads.

I did experiment with slow twists and some slower velocities, down to 1 in 12 twist and as slow as 2000FPS. Couldn't hit a box at 25 yards. Then I got one hit and another slipping down the side. Oh, FYI, 1 in 8 twist did stabilize and velocities over around 2590 FPS did it too.

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Old March 16, 2013, 05:19 PM   #7
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SS109 M855 Armor piercing?

They do have a steel penetrator cone in the nose. However, for reasons I have never understood they are not considered to be armor piercing. The criteria for this projectile was that it go through both sides of a USGI steel helmet at xx# yds. I have drilled through 12" of reinforced concrete with 36 rounds. I never tried on Kevlar but believe they would be like a hot knife through butter. Kevlar is not intended to stop any rifle rounds.
So to summarize, they will go through anything, but are not considered armor piercing.
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Old March 17, 2013, 11:36 AM   #8
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Marco,
"armor peircing" is a legally defined term, the bullet must be made out of a minimum percentage of steel, tungsten,iron or other metal with AP qualities to be "armor peircing", the green tip penetrators to not meet this criteria, they fall under "ball" ammunition

I refer you to 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(b) for the exact definition.

I have also had the best accuracy whith these SS109 bullets by loading them as close to spec (fps) as possible. I shoot SS109 bullets at about 2800 fps through a 1/9 16" barrel with acceptable accuracy, by "acceptable" I mean accurate enough for human sized targets out to 100+ yards
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Old March 17, 2013, 05:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
"armor peircing" is a legally defined term,
So then, you are in charge of chasing down the SS109 bullets in flight, and informing and preventing them from breaking that legal definition of armor piercing, which they will do, when fired at steel plate.

After that, you can backstop some obsolete cartridges.
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Old March 18, 2013, 12:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
So then, you are in charge of chasing down the SS109 bullets in flight, and informing and preventing them from breaking that legal definition of armor piercing, which they will do, when fired at steel plate.


Hmm, "armor peircing" has nothing to do with what it will or will not penetrate. Just because a bullet will in fact penetrate something that is considered armor does not make it "armor peircing" as defined by the law.
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Old March 18, 2013, 01:33 PM   #11
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I am just going to shoot them at the range for plinking ammo to get rid of them
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Old March 18, 2013, 01:34 PM   #12
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I'd just use it for plinking and such --- but thats just me
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Old March 18, 2013, 02:33 PM   #13
Marco Califo
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Law vs. reality disconnect

My point exactly. When a "legal definition" is disconnected from reality of function, you have a screwed up law and dangerous ammo on the market
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:47 PM   #14
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I got it all reloaded today and am just going to shoot it off as plinking rounds to get rid of it. Next trip to the range and it will be gone.
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Old March 20, 2013, 12:43 PM   #15
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My point exactly. When a "legal definition" is disconnected from reality of function, you have a screwed up law and dangerous ammo on the market
Oh, you are right, <sarcasm> this dangerous ammo doesn't belong in civilian hands and should be banned! </sarcasm>
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Old March 20, 2013, 06:03 PM   #16
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What is the bullet weight? If I knew what the weight is I might have a load for you. Are they 62gr ? I have some ss109 made by Olympic. What is the twist rate of your rifle?
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Old March 20, 2013, 06:59 PM   #17
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yes 62 gr ss109 and my rifle is a 1 in 8 twist
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Old March 21, 2013, 06:32 PM   #18
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I used Varget 25.6gr, primer wsr, OAL 2.20 in. with 62gr fmjbt bullet. I have the same twist rate 1:8. Iron sights at 50yrds 1.25 inch groups. I have not worked my way out to 100yds with this one yet. The olympic ammo has a greater spread to 3 inches. I don't know why?
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Old March 22, 2013, 12:58 PM   #19
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I have a few of these pulled bullets laying around. Disappointing to read the accuracy you guys are getting out of them. Still they will be good enough for plinking.
I stumbled across this Spec Sheet thought it was interesting.
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Old March 22, 2013, 01:52 PM   #20
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That pdf sez it's for the m16a2 (20", 1:7 twist barrel).... and has a nominal MV of 3K+ ..... if you all are trying to shoot the these out of something less than 1:7 barrels at less than 3K f/sec, then why would you expect them to stabilize?

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Old March 22, 2013, 02:14 PM   #21
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The accuracy of SS109 projos is notoriously bad, at least compared to civilian market ammo.

The steel penetrator in them is rarely actually centered in the round itself - usually it's off center a smidge one way or another, which leads to sub par accuracy. But keep in mind that they were never designed to punch 1 hole groups - they were designed to be "minute of man" rounds, and they serve that purpose just fine in most cases.

While they are capable of penetrating "armor", they are not classified as AP rounds as previously explained.
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Old March 22, 2013, 04:03 PM   #22
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I bought a case IMI M855 a couple years ago when Widener's had them on sale. Pretty happy with the accuracy, shot them in several 100-200 yard CMP and NRA matches when I was short of match ammo. They're not the equal of my SMK handloads, but they hold under 2" at 100 yards.
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