The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 20, 2013, 07:44 PM   #1
adamc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2013
Location: Stalingrad Connecticut
Posts: 216
Any bayonet experts ?

Any bayonet experts ?

My father brought home from Korea, what I thought was an M1 bayonet.
Found it in a box of stuff while cleaning out.
He never talked about any of the guns & stuff to us, only the 'War stories'.
I searched the internet and found an M1 bayonet not even close to what he had.

It looks to be a type of machete
14 1/2 " oal, 10" blade
6" blood channel, 1 1/8 wide blade

I have tried to post pics, but am not able to
__________________
**** NRA Life Member *****

Connecticut was the Cradle of the Gun Industry, NOW it is just a Pine Box,
Courtesy of our Governor "Chairman MAO Malloy"
adamc is offline  
Old March 20, 2013, 08:06 PM   #2
mete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 5,287
There is no such thing as a "blood groove" on a knife.It has nothing to do with blood .It's called a "fuller"
__________________
And Watson , bring your revolver !
mete is offline  
Old March 20, 2013, 08:11 PM   #3
Winchester_73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,859
Well if not American, it might be a Mauser bayonet. Can you post the markings and pics?
__________________
Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west
Winchester_73 is offline  
Old March 20, 2013, 09:07 PM   #4
zbones6
Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2011
Posts: 91
Blood Groove

Well, the term "blood groove" does have some meaning. The "fuller" is a groove that makes a sword/large blade lighter. The blood groove is designed to reduce section so that as you pull a bayonet/knife out of...something, the suction does not pull...stuff...out with it. However, according to my grandfather who served in the Pacific Theater, it didnt always work.
zbones6 is offline  
Old March 20, 2013, 09:11 PM   #5
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 5,872
pics please...
pictures would help identify...
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old March 20, 2013, 10:09 PM   #6
MikeG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 2, 2002
Location: Pueblo West Colorado
Posts: 212
The bayonet could also be Japanese. The Chicoms and Norks had a lot of left overs from WWII that they used in the Korean War.
MikeG is offline  
Old March 20, 2013, 10:50 PM   #7
Buzzcook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 5,604
There are, or were some bolo(machete) bayonets, afaik all predate WWII let alone Korea.. None that I know of had a fuller or blood channel.

Look through the pics here maybe you'll find what you have.
http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Ide...ion_guide.html

I do have a few bayonets but I'm not an expert by any means.
Buzzcook is offline  
Old March 21, 2013, 06:46 AM   #8
adamc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2013
Location: Stalingrad Connecticut
Posts: 216
some pictures.. I figured out how to do it, by resaving them "smaller"
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0076small.JPG (91.9 KB, 83 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0077small.JPG (128.3 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0080small.JPG (89.8 KB, 64 views)
__________________
**** NRA Life Member *****

Connecticut was the Cradle of the Gun Industry, NOW it is just a Pine Box,
Courtesy of our Governor "Chairman MAO Malloy"
adamc is offline  
Old March 21, 2013, 07:41 AM   #9
mapsjanhere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2009
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 2,343
Well, lets start by what it doesn't have - any kind of way of mounting it to a gun. It also doesn't have any holes in the tang where the grips were riveted or screwed on. To me it looks like the blank for a bayonet, before the grove for the mount were cut etc.
__________________
F 135 - the right choice
mapsjanhere is offline  
Old March 21, 2013, 09:15 AM   #10
adamc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2013
Location: Stalingrad Connecticut
Posts: 216
well
I don't know how he would get a blank..

although I did have Uncles who did work for several gun companies
AFTER WW2. Marlin, Mossberg, and Winchester

did any of these make bayonets ?
__________________
**** NRA Life Member *****

Connecticut was the Cradle of the Gun Industry, NOW it is just a Pine Box,
Courtesy of our Governor "Chairman MAO Malloy"
adamc is offline  
Old March 21, 2013, 11:49 AM   #11
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,273
I would say that its a blank. Interesting none the less.
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
BoogieMan is offline  
Old March 21, 2013, 04:25 PM   #12
mapsjanhere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2009
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 2,343
If you look at this drawing of an exploded Garand bayonet, you can see the connection
__________________
F 135 - the right choice
mapsjanhere is offline  
Old March 21, 2013, 05:28 PM   #13
Buzzcook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 5,604
Winchester did make bayonets. Don't know if they made them into WWII. The ones I know of date from between the civil war and WWI.
Buzzcook is offline  
Old March 21, 2013, 07:50 PM   #14
RJay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,637
After WWII there were surplus up the kazoo that people were trying to figure out a way to make money on it. Using tanks and jeeps to pull plows, one hardware store even used bayonet blanks welded to a frame, hooked up to a long handle to make a weed " hoe". With the millions of tons of military surplus. and left over parts from cancelled contracts, I don't find it surprising that a bayonet blank would be loose in the market, they were probably selling them for 50 cents a piece to make your own "hunting knife". I'm quite sure ther were tons of blanks that wound up in the junk yard as scrape. Remember, they were even pushing crated Jeeps and Trucks overboard because the cost of retuning them to the US was more than their value.Let me amend this, in the 1950's it only cost 10 cents to get in to the movies, so they were probably selling those for 5 cents apiece.
__________________
Ron James

Last edited by RJay; March 21, 2013 at 08:08 PM.
RJay is offline  
Old March 22, 2013, 07:25 PM   #15
Winchester_73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,859
There were 4 main M1 garand bayonet types. The first type is the 16in aka long bayonets. I think these were discontinued around 1942 or 1943 in favor of 10 in versions. For the 10in versions, some were made as 10 in bayonets and others were cut down from unissued 16in bayonets. The cut ones will have the blood groove aka fuller go all the way up the blade where as the "m1 bayonet" (I don't know the exact name) will have the blood groove stop, as pictured below and as pictured by the OP. The 4th type is the Korean war m5 type, which had the M4 bayonet (for m1 carbine) blade. That blade type was also shared by the m3 fighting knife, the m6 bayonet for the m14, and of course the m7 bayonet for the M16.

Winchester never made any garand bayonets. I know Winchester made P17 aka 30-06 Enfield bayonets (I had one - these also fit the 1897 Winchester trenchguns) and I think they made bayonets for the Russian contract model 1895 Winchesters. M1 garand bayonet makers included but are not limited to: Pal, AFH (American For and Hoe), Utica, UFH ( Union Fork and Hoe), OL (Oneida Limited), and WT (Wild Drop Forge and Tool)

__________________
Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west

Last edited by Winchester_73; March 25, 2013 at 12:53 PM.
Winchester_73 is offline  
Old March 24, 2013, 05:16 PM   #16
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,161
It is a forging for the M1 bayonet*. Many machining operations would have been needed to complete it. It could have come from any of the factories making the M1 bayonet just before or during WWII, but not from Winchester, which never made the M1.

* The M1 bayonet and M1 rifle are not directly connected except in the coincidence of the nomenclature. The Bayonet Knife, M1, was issued from the late 1930's into the 1960's. It fitted, and was issued with, the M1, the M1903, the M1903A3 and M1903A4 rifles. It was superseded for the M1 rifle by the M5 bayonet.

FWIW, the "blood groove" is a basic training myth; it is properly called a "fuller" and is intended to lighten and stiffen the blade, not to allow the victim's blood to come out.

Jim
__________________
Jim K

Last edited by James K; March 24, 2013 at 05:22 PM.
James K is offline  
Old March 25, 2013, 09:32 AM   #17
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 4,016
That is very interesting. I have never seen a rough forging of a bayonet blank before and how anyone in the service got one, would make an interesting tale.

Things like this would have stayed in the factory or gone into the scrap bin.
__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Old March 25, 2013, 08:14 PM   #18
RJay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,637
Well, just because he was in the service doesn't mean he acquired that forging in service, odds are , he didn't. He might have found it in a junkyard, peons like me used to visit junkyards all the time, I didn't even know there were auto parts stores, all our car parts come from junk yards, and these yards used to be places of wonder. This happens frequently, Someones father or grandfather was in the service, after their passing, something is found in their effects, hence it has to be something he was issued in the service. In 99 per-cent of the cases it was something unrelated to military service and just an item that the deceased picked up somewhere in their many years of life. Of course that is JMHO.
__________________
Ron James
RJay is offline  
Old March 26, 2013, 04:27 PM   #19
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,161
It is possible the forging did come from Korea; at one time, the U.S. Army had something called "offshore procurement" which meant buying a lot of equipment from allied countries, including Germany, Japan and Korea. I don't know if Korea made M1 bayonets, either for the U.S. or for their own use (they did have M1 rifles obtained under military assistance programs), but I do know they later cut the blades of their bayonets to 5"; quite a few of those were sold on the U.S. market.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11055 seconds with 10 queries