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Old March 18, 2013, 11:40 PM   #51
Metal god
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Not always, sometime they just pop off two or three and then shoot fine for a couple, and then do their funny trick again.
This happened to me with a brand new Del-ton echo 316 . First trip to the range I was shooting and everything seemed great . About 150 rounds in to the day I fired a shot and it burped out 3 or 4 . The guy I was with is a Marine and I asked him to check it out . He started shooting and all seemed cool for the first mag (10 rounds here in CA ) He popped in the next mag and started doing some real test like rapid fire then rapid to slow back to rapid nothing all good . Then next mag he tried pulling the trigger and holding it back and slowly releasing it , BURRRP 4 shots fired on slow trigger release . We could make it do it almost every time we slowly released the trigger .

We put it up knowing there was something wrong with it . I called Del-Ton and they seemed very eager to get it back and fix it at no charge hmm I wonder why . They told me it needed a new disconnect and hammer . I have not had a problem since.

Just thought I'd tell my story of a new rifle malfunctioning with no work being done on it at all .
.
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Last edited by Vanya; March 19, 2013 at 09:10 AM. Reason: no how-to's, please.
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Old March 19, 2013, 12:29 PM   #52
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Even a FFL can't build a full auto for his own enjoyment.
Actually, he can if he has an 07 FFL (manufacturer) and a Class 2 SOT (Special Occupational Taxpayer). The full auto gun then can never be transferred, except to LE or military, or to another FFL/SOT who has a demonstration request letter from a LE agency. It cannot be converted back to semi-auto (once a machine gun, always a machine gun under current US law). If it is not otherwise legally transferred and the FFL gives up his/her license, it has to be destroyed.
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Old March 19, 2013, 04:27 PM   #53
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Once a machine gun, always a machine gun.
On an AR-15 receiver this is true. There are two modifications that need to be made to install the full-auto parts. You will note the extra pin above the selector switch in the picture posted earlier. That's one modification. Once this hole has been drilled to accept the auto disconnect, you own a machine gun by BATF rules even if there are no full-auto parts installed.
Almost all semi-auto firearms require some modification to the receiver to install full auto parts.
Modifications that allow a semi-auto to fire full-auto (like triger sear adjustments) without installing the full auto parts are often dangerous and can results in the injury or death of the shooter. That's why it's so important to take a gun out of service if it doubles or triples on a trigger pull. This is commonally referred to as slam fire.
The only guns that were built for slam fire are sub-machine guns that use pistol ammo. They generally fired from an open bolt.
Personally, I don't care very much for small full auto weapons. They just don't do a very good job. Semi-auto weapons can fire so fast that full-auto is not needed in almost all situations. I used a full auto m-16 in the military. I was not impressed. Select fire was much better. I was lucky, I never had to enter a close range fire fight were full auto would have been usefull.
Still, for those who want a full auto weapon, there is a legal path to ownership.
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:55 PM   #54
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Actually, he can if he has an 07 FFL (manufacturer) and a Class 2 SOT (Special Occupational Taxpayer). The full auto gun then can never be transferred, except to LE or military, or to another FFL/SOT who has a demonstration request letter from a LE agency. It cannot be converted back to semi-auto (once a machine gun, always a machine gun under current US law). If it is not otherwise legally transferred and the FFL gives up his/her license, it has to be destroyed.
Well, sorta.

1. He must be a licensed manufacturer, and to legally get that license he has to be in business to justify it. So, he may be making it for his own enjoyment, but he's only legally allowed to do so because of his business.

2. He can only possess it as long as he's in business because as soon as he's no longer in business, the license goes away and when the license goes away, so does the gun. So he may be making the gun for his own enjoyment, but the gun is never really his.

So he's not making the gun for himself because it's never his gun, and the only reason he can make it is because of his business. Most people would say that if you make something that never permanently belongs to you and that you can only posess by virtue of, and during your employement in a certain profession and while you have a particular license then you made it and have it for work and because of work, not really for your "own enjoyment".
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Old March 20, 2013, 03:55 PM   #55
alan
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Interestingly, then Major George Chin, U.S.M.C., who wrote what was described as "the seminal work on machine guns", though today it might be somewhat dated, offered the following on machine guns and their development. "The government never produced a decent machine gun".

The Major Chin was an acknowledged expert, who most laudably of John Browning. Seems that Mr. Browning did his weapons development work with nary a bit of government support. I believe that he offered his designs to the U.S. Government free of charge, without payment of any loyalties.

Among other things that Browning might have been described as would, I think be, a loyal American.
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Old March 20, 2013, 04:24 PM   #56
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On an AR-15 receiver this is true. There are two modifications that need to be made to install the full-auto parts.
Not with the old ones like my SP1, this is incorrect. All I need is the drop in parts no modifications required, it's like this from the factory and it's not a machinegun. But it also means if I acquire the parts and if they are anywhere near in close proximity, like in the same building or property, then I do have a machinegun.
I did some looking and it looks like I was ill-informed and must recant
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Last edited by lcpiper; March 20, 2013 at 04:31 PM.
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Old March 21, 2013, 09:01 AM   #57
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The BATF had maufactures slightly modify the old SP1 receiver so that the full auto conversion would not be so easy. This has made the older SP1 design a "collectable".

Last edited by Vanya; March 21, 2013 at 09:25 AM. Reason: discussion of how to convert to FA is off-limits.
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Old March 21, 2013, 09:27 AM   #58
Vanya
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This is a discussion of the legality of FA weapons. No discussion of illegal activities, please.
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