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Old March 19, 2013, 09:45 PM   #51
Brian Pfleuger
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150 yards?!

I really hate these various incarnations of caliber wars threads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18

The 243 fails as an elk round exactly the same way that a .308 or 375H&H magnum fails, by not hitting the important stuff.

Unrecovered animals are not evidence of a failure of the bullet. They're unrecovered. We don't KNOW where the bullet hit. Interestingly, recovered animals always have holes in the important stuff. It should lead one to believe that poking holes in the important stuff kills things and when things don't get dead, it's because the important things didn't get holes poked in them.

Young people, small-framed women and other with an aversion to recoil regularly hunt elk with the 243. It does the job when they do.
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:47 PM   #52
kdemers58
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less recoil

I am not from the west were you have Elk but i have a 257 roberts that i have killed white tail and black bear they come in 120 gr bullets i would think plenty for elk they have low recoil mi wife has one and my son and the both love them rugers m77 in 257 is a nice deal.
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:50 PM   #53
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I have no doubts when my daughter tells me she hit the mark, that she did...she is a crack shot...with antelope and deer tags filled every year with one shot since she was 14 (17 now) and most antelope were between 200 - 300 yards....deer between 50 - 150 yards.....this elk was only about 50 yards from her....100 grain Remington core-lokt
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:54 PM   #54
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Old March 19, 2013, 10:21 PM   #55
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I can hit a 6" target all day at 1000 yards. Last year I shot a deer in the heart that was really hit in the guts when I finally found it. It was only 230 yards away. Sometimes, stuff happens. That is the first deer I have gut shot in 15 or so years, but at times we dont hit where we think we do.
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Old March 19, 2013, 10:26 PM   #56
Brian Pfleuger
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Unless there's a recovered animal, there's ALWAYS doubt. I've killed dozens of deer and I still screw up, even on "cake" shots. Show me someone who doesn't and I'll show you a liar. I don't want to admit it but it's the truth. If she shot an elk at 50 yards with a 100gr Core-lokt and did not recover the animal, she did not place the bullet where she wanted it. Period.
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Old March 19, 2013, 10:29 PM   #57
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True...and since most all her shots are usually over 100 yards, it is very possible that she missed the mark due to being so close..........and her first elk....lord knows I get all sorts of hyped when I see an elk...hard to keep breathing slow and controlled, lol
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Old March 19, 2013, 10:31 PM   #58
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I wish I could've seen her shoot...I was only about 20 yards away but watching a different area when I 'bout jumped out of my skin when I heard her shoot
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Old March 19, 2013, 10:42 PM   #59
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NimRod, if you'd like to come over I have a Benelli R1 in 270 WSM if she's like to try a few shots.
I also have some military rifles she can try.
PM me and we'll meet at the range in Shoshoni or you can come here. (I have 300 yds to shoot out of my shop door)
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Old March 20, 2013, 07:45 AM   #60
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I see some people advising a .25-06. I personally wouldn't go that route for two reasons:

1. Muzzle blast is pretty bad unless you get a 26" barrel.
2. You are are still limited to a pretty small bullet.

I know there are people here that are saying the .243 will down an elk quite well when hit in the proper vitals - even with the lighter 6mm bullet. That is true but this is a case where heavier really is better. I believe you stand a much better chance of a successfull shot if you can choose a caliber where the bullet is up in the 130+grn weight.
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Old March 20, 2013, 08:10 AM   #61
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I gave my future DIL a Ruger Compact Laminate in 260 for her graduation from Law School this year. She is 5 nuthin, 100 nuthin and is impervious to recoil; however, the Compact fits her perfectly. As previously mentioned, the Savage Lady Hunter is very nice in 708 or 308. I would recommend the 308 for Elk, particularly if you don't reload. Ammo will be much easier to find.
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Old March 20, 2013, 09:57 AM   #62
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Re: Choosing new rifle for teen girl for hunting

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeauxTide View Post
I gave my future DIL a Ruger Compact Laminate in 260 for her graduation from Law School this year. She is 5 nuthin, 100 nuthin and is impervious to recoil; however, the Compact fits her perfectly. As previously mentioned, the Savage Lady Hunter is very nice in 708 or 308. I would recommend the 308 for Elk, particularly if you don't reload. Ammo will be much easier to find.
..... .308 ammo is nowhere to be found everywhere that I have looked, even online. I can find 7mm-08 pretty much anywhere, however.
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Old March 20, 2013, 04:19 PM   #63
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Quote:
With the 6.5 creedmoor, keep in mind that Hornady is currently the only one making factory ammo as far as I know. I wouldnt say that its super hard to find, but availability can be spotty with it.
6.5 Creedmoor ammo isn't usually stocked on the shelves of your local gun shop, but it can be found on the internet or ordered through your local gun shop (I would say it is more available than 308 ir 223 ammo currently). In the summer of 2013 Nosler will be coming out with ammo for the 6.5 Creedmoor; it will be loaded with 140 grain Accubonds.
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Old March 20, 2013, 06:27 PM   #64
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Girls aren't as fragile as they'd have us believe.

They are sneaky, devious, and we love every cantakerious unpredictable bone in their body.

Most likely they can, and will, run longer, swim further, dive deeper, come up dryer, and look better afterward than us Neanderthals.

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Old March 20, 2013, 07:37 PM   #65
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i switched to the barnes x bullets years ago for .243 and can attest to them working well on larger whitetails in the midwest (southdakota) and to large muleys out to 200+ yards...

the nosler partitions i have used on elk and moose with great success in 300 win mag and 30/06 ....


also to note, i would only hunt elk with larger than .243... i would be thinking 7mm-08 at a minimum or maybe even 280 rem...

i love the .243 and shoot them all them time and raised my two oldest daughters to shoot them as first deer rifles, but like i said before i would switch to at least a 308 for an elk rifle... . my first 2 elk were shot with an old sporterized enfiled no4 mk1 in 303 british and using generic remington round nose soft points and the elk (both spikes) fell in their tracks... i was 17 and 18 yrs old for each of the kills and was glad just to draw a tag and was hunting for meat.... hit em in the boiler with a big slow moving round like the 303 brit or 35rem and they will fall... even 30/30 will take em' down...
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Old March 20, 2013, 07:39 PM   #66
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Article on a Savage Model 11 Lightweight in 6.5 Creedmoor.

Video of the Savage Model 11 Lightweight in 6.5 Creedmoor.

Last edited by Geo_Erudite; March 20, 2013 at 09:55 PM.
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Old March 20, 2013, 08:22 PM   #67
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The .303 reference got me thinking about military calibers... What would be wrong with using a good old fashioned 8mm Mauser for elk? Similar ballistics to a 30-06 with a larger bullet diameter and slightly less recoil (depending on the stock, weight of the rifle). Hornady makes a great 195 gr hunting load for it.

It may still be more recoil than she would like though. Just a thought
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Old March 21, 2013, 08:38 PM   #68
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One more opinion, if you can stand it. Ruger made (makes?) a rifle in 6.5x55. Outstanding round. Great penetration with medium and heavy bullets, and mild recoil.

The 260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmore will do the same things.

Good luck!
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Old March 23, 2013, 12:01 PM   #69
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7mm-08

Anything you can't do with a 7mm-08; you should not try doing with a .308. With the better bullets available (even in factory) it is a great round. The .308 would be my second choice (a distant second).

With three hunters/shooters in the family you simply must get into reloading. C hck out the advice here and at other sites for beginners... It isn't all that tough or expensive "to start". Once you do, you will never ever stop because of what you can do.
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Old March 24, 2013, 10:07 PM   #70
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I agree about using a premium grade bullet in the 243, it should help on odd angle shots and where you may need some extra penetration. Not all shots are simple side into the ribs shots. A friends wife uses a 243 with Nosler Partitions for elk, has for 20-some years I believe, without a lost critter.

I also agree with the general sentiment that IF the bullet goes right where you want it, it isnt generally a bullet failure, however, if a 243 was all that anyone really needed for elk, people wouldn't use larger calibers, they wouldnt have gained the reputaion they have for heavier animals, and the premium bullet makers would have never got off the ground. Heavier calibers can help, as can better grade bullets. I believe there is such a thing as bullet failure, for certain shots, and heavier animals in particular. Smaller caliber, relatively light weight, standard cup and core bullets can break up and/or fail to penetrate as well as desired when they hit heavy bones.

Another thought, IF you have a truly good gunsmith available, is rebarrel the 243 to 7-08 or 308. Factory take-off barrels can often be had for $50-$75. It would need to be fitted and headspaced, it may need to be set back a turn and rechambered, or perhaps not. She could then keep the stock she likes, and the gun would be familiar in al other respects. You could then sell the 243 barrel to recoup some of the expense.
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Old March 25, 2013, 11:49 PM   #71
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Might try a Limbsaver slip-on recoil pad on that .270 or 30.06.
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Old March 26, 2013, 05:26 PM   #72
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.243 Winchester

My daughter shot this buck at 75 yds dead on frontal shot, he ran just over a little rise in the pasture whre we couldn't see him but at the shot I knew she hit him good, and she practices as much as her work will allow. She finally stepped up to .270 win and loves it, and more importantly she shoots it well and loves to shoot it.
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Old March 26, 2013, 10:09 PM   #73
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I'll chime in for the 7/08 too. That and a .243 should serve her very well. I have shot three elk with the 7/08 and I have never had one need two shots and never had one go over 30 yards. As others have pointed out ammo is probably more available for the 7/08 now than the .308. But if you want to take full advantage of what the 7/08 has to offer you might want to get into reloading. There are bullets available from 100 to 175 grains and lots of good choices in the 120 to 140 range for deer and antelope and then you can use the 150 on up for elk.
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Old March 27, 2013, 01:21 PM   #74
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308 Availability

Went to 2 gun stores in Birmingham and WalMarts in Jasper, Sumiton, Hoover, and Alabaster, AL. All had 308 in 150s and the gun stores had Hornady, Rem, Win, Nosler, and Federal in 150, 165, and 180. Only the gun stores had 708.
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Old March 27, 2013, 01:32 PM   #75
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elk

Check out the performance and felt recoil of either: 7 x 57 or 6.5 x 55 calibers.
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