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Old March 18, 2013, 08:28 PM   #826
Cesure
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Cesure
I agree with you. Using .327 to learn to reload .32 S&W or even .32 H&R Mag will leave you a considerable margin of safety. The .32 S&W is a joy when reloading as it takes little powder, it pleasingly mild to shoot and is nice to the wallet.
Thanks, BillCA. So far the only problem I'm finding with reloading the .32 S&W is that the charge is so small I can't find a powder scoop for it. I guess I'll have to mill one for .19cc. It would be nice not to have to weigh every charge when the pressure is only 9500 CUP.
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:25 AM   #827
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Hello Cesure
If I were you, I would contact Lee dies and ask them for a Powder scoop for the .32 S&W Long Cartridge. I Bought their full set of carbide dies and it came with a Powder scoop. They are great with their cutomer's I once broke a primer remover stem, Told them it was my Fault and they sent me Two Free. I use Mainly Lee dies they are very economical and work Great. With Their straight through neck expander die I set my Powder dispenser right onto it so that it expand's the neck of the cartridge and I then dump my Powder charge in with my Powder dispenser. I feel the Federal .327 Magnum will be around for a very long time as now many other's are buying gun's chambered in it now than when it first Came out. It is a super fast flat shooting round... Hammer It
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Old March 19, 2013, 08:06 AM   #828
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Thanks Hammer It. I'm planning to use Lee dies and I have their full set of scoops. They just don't make one for the shorter 32 S&W. I have two that are suitable for the 32 S&W Long (.3cc) so I guess I could partially fill one with epoxy. I guess I could also pour from a .5cc into a .3cc and then use the .2cc that doesn't fit as my charge.

I think the people who say there isn't a niche for the .327 are missing something. The .22 Mag is a rimfire and the reliability of rimfires for personal defense is an issue. I wouldn't want to be the guy who tells all the women who won't shoot a .38 Special that they have to use a round that is considered to be not suitable. So a centerfire round that's smaller than .38 Special is needed for the recoil sensitive shooter and to get 6 shots in a concealable revolver. Of course, we had that with the .32 S&Ws and .32 H&R Mag, but the energy for a good personal defense round isn't there. Now it is. Training/practicing with a weak round and then loading a magnum for personal defense is common and considered sensible with the .38/.357 and it now is for the .32/.327

I also love the idea of the .327 in a short barreled rifle. I've wondered if anybody has modified an M1 Carbine to it (just for the fun of it ).
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Old March 19, 2013, 12:59 PM   #829
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If I were you, I would contact Lee dies and ask them for a Powder scoop for the .32 S&W Long Cartridge.
The standard scoop coming with .32 S&W Long dies is a 1.3cc, I believe. ...which is still much larger than any of the charges listed in their supplied data.

And, comically, the .32 S&W dies come with a 4.3cc scoop (their largest scoop). You can fit 2 loaded .32 S&W cartridges inside the scoop.
They don't even give you something that's easily modified for the appropriate volume - just a massive scoop that's completely useless for the cartridge.
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Old March 19, 2013, 01:14 PM   #830
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Yup. That's why I bought the whole set. Their smallest dipper comes with the .380 ACP dies and is too big for most of their starting loads. I figure I can get some aluminum bar stock and drill holes with various drill sizes and put water in from a small syringe to find the right size. I calculated that I can get over 3500 loads from a pound of Win 231 if I can avoid waste.
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Old March 19, 2013, 01:44 PM   #831
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The scoop that was included with my Lee 32 H&R Mag Carbide dies (90809) is 0.3cc. It takes around 3 scoops for my ~13gr loads for 327. The 32 shorties must take less than 1/2 of my loads.
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Old March 19, 2013, 03:07 PM   #832
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I also love the idea of the .327 in a short barreled rifle. I've wondered if anybody has modified an M1 Carbine to it (just for the fun of it ).
I doubt that will ever happen, but IIRC, it was brought up earlier in this thread. (of course, that could be 16 pages ago...)

It would really be re-inventing the wheel, or a Rube Goldberg. The .30 Carbine round is already very, very similar to the .327 Federal and while there are a few key differences in the two rounds, they otherwise provide very similar features. They are nearly the same size in most dimensions, but the .30 Carb is obviously a much better design for a semi-auto with it's rimless case, and stacking 15 or 30 of them in a box magazine is simple whereas it would be a nightmare to build a large capacity box magazine for the .327 Federal cartridge.

Furthermore, the bullets used in a .30 Carbine round are optimized for .30 Carbine speeds from an 18-inch barrel. Those same speeds would push most handgun jacketed bullets WELL out of their design. As it is, we can already push some of these handgun bullets to their very limit -- and that's just in a 3 or 4 inch revolver. The 60 grain Gold Dot bullet, for example (actually designed for the .32 Auto) can be loaded in the .327 Federal but the speeds we could conceivably push it to would go very much past the limits of the bullet.

I've been warned by the ATK ballistician that pushing jacketed bullets far beyond the scope of their design construction can lead to damage to my revolver, specifically the forcing cone. Hornady places little "speed limit specification" sheets in with thier cannelured .312" component slugs and while I haven't chrono'd a load that BREAKS those limits, I've had a lot of fun coming awfully close.

Just because I'm a hobbyist and a dreamer...
I'm focusing my "it'll never happen but I can still wish it" wishes on the guys at Coonan to build a .327 Federal Coonan Magnum Automatic.

Truly, I would be first in line. I love my Coonan and it runs like a top, and having a little brother in .327 Federal would be a rolling riot.
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Old March 19, 2013, 03:53 PM   #833
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The standard scoop coming with .32 S&W Long dies is a 1.3cc, I believe. ...which is still much larger than any of the charges listed in their supplied data.

And, comically, the .32 S&W dies come with a 4.3cc scoop (their largest scoop). You can fit 2 loaded .32 S&W cartridges inside the scoop.
They don't even give you something that's easily modified for the appropriate volume - just a massive scoop that's completely useless for the cartridge.
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Hello Franken Mauser
My Bad here... I Meant to say if you Buy The Lee dies for .32 S&W that scoup is about Perfect for Powder Puff .32 S&W Long Cartridge loads. Regards, Hammer It
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Old March 19, 2013, 05:08 PM   #834
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The scoop that was included with my Lee 32 H&R Mag Carbide dies (90809) is 0.3cc. It takes around 3 scoops for my ~13gr loads for 327. The 32 shorties must take less than 1/2 of my loads.
According to Hodgdon, 1.4gr is the max load for .32 shorts for an 85gr bullet and Win 231 is the only powder they offer. That boggles my mind. Well under twice the weight of a grain of wheat and a velocity of only 595 ft/s and that's the max load. That case must be tissue thin.
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Old March 19, 2013, 05:19 PM   #835
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My loads are with H110/W296. The magnum powders are pretty bulky compared to others.

On another note I just received an 8# jug of alliant power pistol mp-300. I'll be busting out the chono and 327 Blackhawk in a few days. The only bullets I have are 100gr XTP, 100gr Speer GD, and 115gr Speer GD. I'll baseline my Blackhawk w/ 100gr AE.
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Old March 19, 2013, 07:47 PM   #836
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I also love the idea of the .327 in a short barreled rifle. I've wondered if anybody has modified an M1 Carbine to it (just for the fun of it ).
I thought of that too, but it's impractical. There isn't enough "gain" over the .30 Carbine round to justify all the engineering changes that would be needed.

On the other hand, I can see a nice lever action rifle with a Trapper sized 16" barrel being a handy rifle for the .327 and instant death on coyotes. To get the most out of the rifle might require working up new loads using a slower powder however.
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Old March 19, 2013, 08:10 PM   #837
Cesure
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I thought of that too, but it's impractical. There isn't enough "gain" over the .30 Carbine round to justify all the engineering changes that would be needed.

On the other hand, I can see a nice lever action rifle with a Trapper sized 16" barrel being a handy rifle for the .327 and instant death on coyotes. To get the most out of the rifle might require working up new loads using a slower powder however.
The M1 chamber/barrel would be an easy mod, but the feed and ejection would be nightmares. But Ruger made a lot of semi auto carbines that handled rimmed cartridges just fine using both tubular and rotary magazines. They had both .357 and .44 magnum semi-auto deer guns for years. And of course there's the 10/22. I would really want the speed of a semi-auto for coyote hunting. The slower powder makes a lot of sense and it would need a good varmint bullet like Varmageddon or even a saboted .17 or .22.
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Old March 19, 2013, 10:03 PM   #838
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Reduced loads for range shooting

Loads using Berry's 83 gr. double ended wadcutter and 3.2 gr. of Trail Boss with small pistol primers makes great plinking and target loads. Barely as much recoil as a 22 mag. Cheap.

Primer---------$0.035
Powder----------.015
Bullet------------.070

$0.12 per round
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Old March 20, 2013, 12:10 AM   #839
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Hello Franken Mauser
My Bad here... I Meant to say if you Buy The Lee dies for .32 S&W that scoup is about Perfect for Powder Puff .32 S&W Long Cartridge loads. Regards, Hammer It
No, no. No apology needed. It may still be a good idea to see if Lee would send a 0.3cc scoop.

I was just pointing out Lee's strange handling of powder scoops for .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long.
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Old March 21, 2013, 02:21 AM   #840
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Cesure - I hadn't thought of the Ruger rifles specifically, but you're right. Modifying one of those might make it a lot easier. The only problem would be if you wanted more than the few rounds offered by a rotary mag. In a low recoiling round like the .327 (from a rifle) you could run the action without moving the rifle from the shoulder. Not quite as fast as a semi though it should be fast enough.
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Old March 21, 2013, 09:46 AM   #841
Cesure
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Promag has adapted mags for the 10/22 that plug into the Ruger rotary mag socket but feed inline. This one holds 32 rounds of .22LR.

http://www.promagindustries.com/product-p/rug-a9.htm

Clearly, they have a solution to the rimmed cartridge feed. It might be physically limited to fewer rounds on a bigger cartridge. They also have a 70 round drum for the 10/22. That thing must be a PITA to load, but you can see how the rounds travel.

http://www.promagindustries.com/product-p/rug-a30.htm
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Old March 21, 2013, 01:20 PM   #842
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I've had a 77/327 in the back of my mind for quite a while.

Back on page 28, I had two posts discussing it:

Quote:
I still think a 77/327 would be a great rifle, but do fully support the lever action concept.

I've been keeping my eyes out for a beat-to-death 77/22 Hornet or 77/44, to convert to .327; but nobody ever sells them. And if they do, the shop still wants MSRP for the POS.
A new breech block (forward half of the "bolt"), .22 Hornet magazine feed lip modification, and a barrel should be all that would be needed. ...if I ever find a donor.
And, after "tjh" offered some second-hand musings about pressure levels, from a gunsmith:
Quote:
I don't buy it. I think they're shooting from the hip, and never bothered to actually check it out. A few quick calculations will give you a general idea of whether it will work.

The .327 Federal runs 45,000 psi.
The .44 Mag runs 36,000 psi.
The .357 Mag runs 35,000 psi.
The .22 Hornet runs 45,000 psi (same as .327 Federal).
The 5mm Remington Mag runs 33,000 psi (quite high for a rimfire).
And, for comparison, the .22 WMR runs 24,000 psi.


Bolt thrust with those cartridges would be:
.327 Federal - 4,970 lbs
.44 Mag - 7,469 lbs
.357 Mag - 5,321 lbs
.22 Hornet - 4,329 lbs
5mm Rem - 2,720 lbs
.22 WMR - 1,673 lbs

Force exerted on the chamber walls would be approximately:
.327 Federal - 47,642 lbs
.44 mag - 51,685 lbs
.357 Mag - 41,673 lbs
.22 Hornet - 50,893 lbs
5mm Rem - 21,480 lbs
.22 WMR - 6,040 lbs

The .44 Mag exceeds the .327 Federal in both regards, and .327 nearly matches the .22 Hornet. I would have absolutely no reservations about putting the .327 Federal in a centerfire model.

As for the 5mm Rem... I probably wouldn't chamber it in one of the old v-block-barrel rimfire versions of the 77/22; but I wouldn't hesitate to convert one of the newer threaded versions (they're all heat treated, threaded, and torqued now) or one of the centerfire models.
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Old March 21, 2013, 03:17 PM   #843
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Hello
I would Prefer Marlin to come out with The Federal .327 Magnum in a Bolt rifle. I feel a Bolt rifle would be supreme as far as accuracy Goes with Marlin's Mico-Groove rifling and a Good Piece of Glass Parked on it it would make a Hell of a Woodchuck Gun, I would even use it for Deer up to 50 Yards It would be a Tack driver for that Task... I have a Nice Vintage Marlin 883 chambered in .22 W.M.R. That Pretty Much shoot's One Ragged hole if I do my Part right as shown below, This Target was shot at the 100 Yard Line using CCI-Maxi Mag ammo, sighting it in. The Last Three shot's were dead center and one Ragged hole. It is Tube fed with a 3-9 scope Parked on it. I would Love the same gun chambered in 327 Magnum... Hammer it









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Old March 21, 2013, 07:28 PM   #844
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A327mag rifle would be a nice groundhog / varmint gun . bolt / lever or semi , wouldn't matter to me . may just have to get a encore barrel made in 327 mag.
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Old March 22, 2013, 03:50 PM   #845
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I still point to the actual .312" component jacketed slugs we have available for this round. Are they up to the task of the velocity we'd be pushing them to in a lever action or bolt action rifle?

Hornady says their 85gr XTP says their best performance is in the range of 750 to 1,550 FPS. And their 100gr XTP at 800 to 1,800 FPS. It doesn't say these numbers are a "MAXIMUM", but it does specify clearly that these are the optimum ranges.

I have been specifically warned from an "official" source that I can damage a revolver if I push an incapable bullet too fast, but the warning was very general and not at all specific. And I don't know if that "harm" would extend to a rifle. (unlikely?)

I'm not saying you guys shouldn't run the .327 Federal from a rifle, but I am saying that your bullet selection may be a factor. And because I don't hunt, I have no opinion on handgun bullet performance at what ends up being a BLISTERING rifle speed.

Remember that all the component jacketed .312" bullets on the market right now, with the exception of maybe the 115 grain Gold Dot -- weren't even designed with the .327 Federal from a handgun in mind... these bullets preceded this cartridge. These bullets came around to be loaded in to the very weak .32 H&R Magnum.

Of course, y'all could go with a cast or gas-checked cat bullet, too.
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Old March 22, 2013, 04:16 PM   #846
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There are also jacketed .311 rounds for .303 British rifle bullets. They hold together above 2500 ft/s. I'm not sure of the weights available, but if they're at all comparable to the .308s, varmint rounds would fall in the 110-120 grain range. Of course, it might be that suitable bullets would follow the introduction of such a rifle on the market.
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Old March 23, 2013, 12:49 AM   #847
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Of course, y'all could go with a cast or gas-checked cat bullet, too.
Trying to cut me off at the pass?
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Old March 23, 2013, 06:10 AM   #848
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Of course, y'all can squash the ever-lovin' juice out of a piece of .25 ACP brass around a thin lead rod and swage some dinosaur killers, too!
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Old March 23, 2013, 09:45 AM   #849
Cesure
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Looking at the .303 rifle bullets available, I found this one

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/643...zer-box-of-100

but apparently, other bullets made for the SKS are also suitable despite a nominal diameter of .310. That includes these

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/424...ail-box-of-100

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/326...int-box-of-100

The slightly smaller diameter shouldn't be a problem. I've shot .308 bullets through my 303 Brit and had good accuracy. The weight of these is troublesome. They are short and fat and without the oomph of a necked cartridge, their range won't be great. It would be nice to get a lighter faster bullet, but that would mean shorter and that's bad for accuracy. I think a saboted .17 would be a better option.
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Old March 29, 2013, 08:36 AM   #850
Cesure
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Finally!

My Taurus snubby arrived and I shot some American Eagle 100 gr. JSPs through it. Ouch! This cartridge is a beast in that little gun! I love it! I think I'll get the Hogue grip to tame the recoil some. I also plan to get the Wolff spring kit and work on that trigger a little. I also put some of my 32 H&R mag reloads through it and that seemed like a good load to use for practicing.
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