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Old March 9, 2013, 02:49 AM   #1
Ignition Override
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Due to ammo prices, will MNs become the new favorite?

At least as a high value plinker, will present surplus x54R ammo prices lead to a clear, but permanent increase in both the ammo and rifles' prices?

With no other surplus ammo at similar prices (maybe 5.45x39 again)-even before the panic took place-will people finally turn to these as a 'reserve gun' in case of future tragic events causing high tariffs etc on imported military ammo, or another contagious panic?

If the nice Finnish M** and Polish MN 44s fail to increase much, that could be a good sign.
Classic Arms in NC weeks ago had a batch of MN 38s which vanished.

Last edited by Ignition Override; March 9, 2013 at 03:25 AM.
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Old March 9, 2013, 10:39 AM   #2
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Only speaking for myself, as an inveterate plinker, I am shooting x54r exclusively these days, as it is the only ammo I can find. In both my Mosin and Tokarev, it shoots swell, and enables me to practice a little bit now and again.

My handloads I have kept in reserve for other calibers, as there is no telling when components will be available again. Rarely do I shoot 308 or 243 anymore.

I much prefer 22lr when it is available at reasonable prices, as cleanup is so much easier, and my 22's are better quality firearms IMO, and more pleasurable to shoot.

It is only a matter of time before the x54r surplus is all gone, at which point my choices will have to change.
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Old March 9, 2013, 12:28 PM   #3
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If the 54 becomes popular, the same thing will happen to the prices for its surplus ammo that happened to the 39 when it gained its popularity.
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Old March 10, 2013, 11:21 AM   #4
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the cheap ammo for the M-Ns will dry up like it did for .30 Carbine, M-2 ball, .303 Brit, 8mm, 762x39, et al, ad nausium.

M-N owners will be just like SKS owners, stuck with an ugly gun that no one can afford to shoot with abandon anymore.

If you want a long term shooter/hunter, buy a 30-30 than start acquiring reloading equipment and bullets molds. My local walmart, friday, had loads of Fed 30-30 for $16 a box. I am now shooting paperpatched cast bullets out of my 30-30 for less than .22 rf costs these days.
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Old March 11, 2013, 01:36 AM   #5
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"Roger that". It's nice that the SKS is considered an unfashionable, "ugly" gun.
The vast ship full of cash spent on ARs etc has kept prices down on the SKS etc.
I've been reloading for my six Enfields and FR8 Mauser since '11. About to begin for my Service Grade (CMP) Garand.

Even though I have 3,000 rds. of corrosive surplus as long-term contingency for the LEs, it could be tempting to buy a large case of x54R, simply to have a nice reserve of very cheap full-power plinking ammo for retirement in a few years.

The incentive to spend two hours carefully (balance scales etc) reloading 50 .303 cases, just to blast solid objects or sink them seems somewhat futile.
When the next panic hits, the x54R prices might stay much higher than they are now.
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Old March 11, 2013, 04:20 AM   #6
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x54 is less available than 10 years ago when I owned an M-44. In my opinion the two best surplus deals going are 5.45x39 and 7.5 Swiss GP-11. The GP-11 is quite nice in many aspects considering that you can get brass and .308 cal bullets for reloading.

5.45 is the cheap plinker, 18 cents per round.

Both will dry up of course, buy it now. I'm currently at 2400 of 7.5 and 7,000 of 5.45.
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Old March 12, 2013, 01:32 AM   #7
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Navy Joe: quite true.

But even if AK-74 prices were to approach or approximate their "pre-panic" or "pre-election" prices later this year, the price of a Century or non-Century AK-74 will always be so much higher than most MNs.

Excluding 'normal' ammo price factors, a second Service Grade Garand from the CMP would be just $625, and reloadable HXP ammo .50/rd. for M2 Ball.
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Old March 12, 2013, 10:04 AM   #8
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I don't know if I'd ever consider a Mosin Nagant a plinker. Kind of hard on the shoulder just to shoot cans and such.

I have always considered mine sort of a reserve gun though, to shoot when ammo prices were high.
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Old March 12, 2013, 10:30 AM   #9
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Nope, MN won't become popular for any reason due to ammo prices. As a matter of fact, their ammo is very likely to inflate at a higher rate than other ammo due to both national and international regulations. There very well may be a day in the not to distant future where foreign milsurp type ammo won't even see our shores and the MN's will be even more of a paper weight then then they are now.
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Old March 15, 2013, 11:25 PM   #10
Ignition Override
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And the Swiss 7.5 ammo can be reloaded with most .308 bullets, from what I've read.
Before the panic, GP-11 ammo prices have been about the same as M2 Ball from the CMP.

L. Kilkenny: But won't the much lower x54R ammo prices lead to an increase in buying, even if this raises the prices a bit?

Does anybody have a fair idea whether surplus x54R ammo is Still being shipped to the US on a regular basis?
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Old March 16, 2013, 11:33 AM   #11
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This all sounds a lot like what happened way back when US military ammo was plentiful on the surplus market.
Guns that used that ammo were very popular, and as all that ammo has dried up, they have been retired, for the next generation of surplus ammo and the guns that use them.
Will there ever be current US military ammo on the surplus market like that again?
Or will the present administration prevent it?
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Old March 16, 2013, 12:13 PM   #12
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The 7.62 x 54R is a caliber still very much in use and production today, so "drying" up isn't a realistic possibility IMO.

But the economic laws of supply and demand still apply- so as demand increases, so will price. And as ammo price increases, the demand for- and price of- the Mosin will likely decline again.

When you can buy a Ruger American that'll outshoot it all day long for three bills, if 54R surplus starts approaching OTC centerfire ammo prices it'll be the death knell. It's the cheap ammo, and a "so-so" accurate rifle that makes them attractive these days.

I have a minute-of-angle Mosin "sporter" that I shoot long range, but that requires match handloads. The surplus ammo is just too inaccurate for precision target shooting. When I shoot at a target, I like to know that when I miss it was my fault- and not because of inherently inaccurate ammo- so I don't buy or shoot it.

Now, if you just want to hit a 3-4 MOA chunk of steel, it's fine.
I do agree that keeping a few spam cans around for "you know" isn't a bad idea...
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Old March 16, 2013, 12:26 PM   #13
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out here 54r ammo has been gone since day 1, online it's all gone wherever I've checked.

22lr is still pretty easy to get a hold of and with local prices shooting past $150 for 91/30s and no carbines for less than $250 they just aren't the cheap plinkers that they once were.

this time last year I got a mosin nagant at KYgunCO for $80+shipping+ffl...
I haven't seen a single MN for under $120 online in months and they are still all being bought up.

I probably wont buy any more as people are being completely stupid with their assessment of the value of these guns. I posted an ad on armslist a while back asking for anyone that wants to get rid of a mosin, regardless of condition for use as a project gun but that I had no patience for haggling to post the price they wanted... I haven't gotten a single response for under $250... no thanks guys, I can buy a SKS and bubba it for that price.
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Old March 17, 2013, 07:36 PM   #14
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Mosins are great for allowing me a chance to learn some gunsmithing. I've been able to try things on them that I would not have been willing to do to a more expensive piece of hardware. And friends who could not afford a higher-priced rifle found them a reasonable starter firearm. Lee classic loaders are available for them for $26.

If you build a handload with 12-14 grains of Trail Boss and a 110-125 grain .308 projectile, youll have an 1100fps .22LR-like rile that youths will enjoy shooting.

Just tell them the story of a certain Finnish farmer and what HE did with that piece of equipment..,..
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Old March 17, 2013, 07:39 PM   #15
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I have a Russian M91\30 and just ordered a Chinese M59 Carbine for $99.00. My son has his maternal grandfather's M91\30. I have a good supply surplus ammo and have been reloading low velocity rounds with Trail Boss and "soupcan" lead bullets. They are fairly accurate in a rifle not noted for it's accuracy and don't kick like a mule. I have thought about pulling the bullets on some of my steel cased surplus ammo and reloading with Trail Boss using the existing components except the powder. Have to see how that works out. The rifles and ammo used to be cheap, have to see what happens when the craziness dies down. I just wish I had bought a lot more and different varieties of ammo for the MN including the low power Czech rounds that were available. On a side note I just ordered another Nagant revolver, I was kind of impressed with first one I bought for $99.00 so I ordered another one. Have a bunch of surplus ammo for it. It is not a S&W as far as trigger pull or action smoothness but it sure has all other $100.00 guns beat hands down. Less is sometimes more.
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Old March 17, 2013, 11:48 PM   #16
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Ten minutes ago, "Ammoman" had 880 rds. of Russian x54R at an ok price.
He also has Danish 5.56, Prvi .308, Swiss 7.5, Russian 5.45x39.

g willikers:
About four years ago I stumbled onto a Brit/Euro "Arms Control" website.
Apparently heaps of Euro tax funds have paid numerous countries to destroy stocks of surplus military rifles and ammo.

In South Africa about three years ago, a guy walked in and saw staff ordered by the govt. to tear up obsolete Lee-Enfield and Brens rifles!
He is a friend of an Aussie on "Gunboards".

The UN might be the main driving force behind the wasteful destruction of sporting rifles, and CA Senator Dianne Feinstein
(pure smug arrogance combined with ignorance) has been a driving force.
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Old April 10, 2013, 04:50 PM   #17
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I just bought myself a MN 91/30. It isnt going to win beauty contests, or shoot through a penny at 1000 yards, but it is cheaper to shoot than any of my other guns, so I plan on using it till the ammo dries up. Since it is still being produced and used in former com bloc nations I dont see that happening any time soon. they have made that round for 122 years, and with the surplus market what it is, I see the various companies stepping it up if the surplus market dries up. After all, Promag just made a new stock for the Bear Club, and there isnt many rifles you can sit at the bench, stick the bayonet in the 100 yd backstop and go to town.
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Old April 10, 2013, 09:28 PM   #18
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I sure hope the supply of lower priced surplus stays low for awhile, as I really enjoy shooting the Tokarev, and I seem to shoot more ammo when I shoot it than when I shoot the old 91/30.
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