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Old March 14, 2013, 10:43 PM   #26
tahunua001
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I have not handled those other rifles you mentioned above, so I cannot comment on that. I'm sure there are many better rifles than the Mosin. But can you post the price of those rifles above?
most of those are pretty expensive, over $1000 in good condition however in all fairness, pre WWI era 1891s like remingtons and N.E.W.s fetch close to $500 which is about the same price range as the 96 mauser.
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Old March 16, 2013, 06:42 PM   #27
jake99
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I have two Mosins, an M94 made in Poland in '53, and a 91/30 made in Russia in '43. Both actions slide like silk, so I'm not sure what the stiff action reputation is about. Maybe some people don't clean their guns as often as they should.. The bolt handles don't need more leverage, a longer one would only create torsional forces on the action, so I don't get that story either. The '43 was probably machined by children, while their other factory in Tula was taken over by the Nazis, so I look at the rough machining (where it doesn't matter) on that one fondly. Both bores shine like mirrors. The workmanship on the M44 is flawless. Ugly rifles? I think they're quite beautiful. Simple, clean lines, functional. You might say the wooden barrel covering is luxurious..
As for the surplus ammo, I've heard five people say it's excellent, for every one that calls it inaccurate (or inconsistent..). At eighteen cents a round delivered, I think it might be making some peoples grapes go sour.
That's my take on it. I don't have the experience with other rifles that many on here do, but when I go to the range my Mosins make me happy.
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Old March 16, 2013, 09:21 PM   #28
tahunua001
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I have two Mosins, an M94 made in Poland in '53, and a 91/30 made in Russia in '43. Both actions slide like silk, so I'm not sure what the stiff action reputation is about. Maybe some people don't clean their guns as often as they should.. The bolt handles don't need more leverage, a longer one would only create torsional forces on the action, so I don't get that story either. The '43 was probably machined by children, while their other factory in Tula was taken over by the Nazis, so I look at the rough machining (where it doesn't matter) on that one fondly. Both bores shine like mirrors. The workmanship on the M44 is flawless. Ugly rifles? I think they're quite beautiful. Simple, clean lines, functional. You might say the wooden barrel covering is luxurious..
As for the surplus ammo, I've heard five people say it's excellent, for every one that calls it inaccurate (or inconsistent..). At eighteen cents a round delivered, I think it might be making some peoples grapes go sour.
That's my take on it. I don't have the experience with other rifles that many on here do, but when I go to the range my Mosins make me happy.
being happy with your guns is all well and good, I do not begrudge anyone the right to be happy with their toys. if you can't enjoy it then it's nothing more than a tool and what's the point in a safe full of tools?

however without anything to compare it to, it is difficult to accurately describe and gauge your experiences.
you don't understand the stiff action reputation because you have nothing else to gauge 'stiffness' off of.
you can't accurately gauge accuracy because you haven't shot anything else to compare it to.

you do have a good point with the surplus ammo however it's corrosive... leave your gun too long without cleaning and it rusts... some people don't like having to give their guns windex baths/hot baths/mineral spirits baths, that leaves them new factory ammo that brings the total to closer to 45 cents a round.

and a longer bolt handle wont do anything to the receiver, if your receiver is damaged by operation of the bolt regardless of force exerted then you have serious problems. the average bolt action rifles bolt handle is twice as long as the mosin nagants and the PU snipers have an elongated bolt handle so I think that whole topic lies on thin ice.

the 'wooden barrel covering' is called a hand guard and is present on just about every military service rifle all the way up to the late 40s.


now... with all that said. I own 2 mosin nagants, I shoot them a lot, I even shoot corrosive surplus ammo out of them, they are actually a really pretty design when in decent shape. they go boom and I don't begrudge anyone that likes theirs but for the purpose of this thread, they are just too crude of a design to be paired with this stock set and make a practical target rifle.
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Old March 16, 2013, 10:39 PM   #29
jake99
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The way I see it, the only time a longer bolt handle makes a difference in effort, is while rotating it. You could have a bolt handle six inches long and it doesn't make a bit of difference when chambering, or ejecting a round. There's no 'leverage' involved. My 43, that was made in the worst of the war time, operates exactly like my 53, smooth. Both are smoother than either my .22 Marlin, or my .22 Mossberg WMR. Saying that it's a bad design is nonsense, IMHO. But, you're entitled to yours.
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Old March 16, 2013, 11:05 PM   #30
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The way I see it, the only time a longer bolt handle makes a difference in effort, is while rotating it. You could have a bolt handle six inches long and it doesn't make a bit of difference when chambering, or ejecting a round. There's no 'leverage' involved. My 43, that was made in the worst of the war time, operates exactly like my 53, smooth. Both are smoother than either my .22 Marlin, or my .22 Mossberg WMR. Saying that it's a bad design is nonsense, IMHO. But, you're entitled to yours.
yet again, I am not saying it is a bad design, I'm saying it's a crude design. you are also comparing a centerfire design to a rimfire, two totally different sets of requirements for construction. if you ended up with smooth actioned mosins then good for you, but you need to understand that they are the exception, not the rule.

and there is leverage while cycling a round, rotating the bolt handle upward 90 degrees is the action that cocks the rifle and no matter how you want to look at it, you exert leverage when lifting while cams force the firing pin back and lock it to the rear. that is the only time you need leverage so yes when chambering and ejecting you don't need the longer handle but during cocking there is a serious need of a longer handle.

look at just about any discussion involving the mosin nagant and you will see countless people tell you that it requires the shooter to slap the handle upward with their palm to apply the necessary force to reliably chamber a new round, there isn't a person alive that will tell you that this is necessary for a springfield, enfield, mauser, arisaka, carcano or any other rifle from that time period.
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Old March 17, 2013, 09:39 AM   #31
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This looks interesting.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=UNwoeW6yJcE
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Old March 17, 2013, 10:44 AM   #32
tahunua001
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I actually like that mag, I'm on the mailing list for whenever they get past prototypes and actually move into full production. itd be a nice addition to my sporter...

best part about it is it doesn't have to be incorporated into a proprietary stock design.
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ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
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Old March 17, 2013, 07:15 PM   #33
jake99
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I wonder what the hold up is on it, seems like they could sell a trainload of them.
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Old March 17, 2013, 08:46 PM   #34
tahunua001
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toolshed enterprises usually take a while to get rolling, R&D all are done out of pocket and then business loans to buy more equipment and materials.... it takes time...
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ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
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