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Old March 14, 2013, 09:29 PM   #1
.22lr
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small rifle magnum primers with Varget in .223rem

I have a decent supply of Varget and CCI #41 SRM primers.

I bought the above primers a while back and meant to put together a cheaper plinking load with ball powder. I never got around to it and now i have Varget, a dwindling supply of small rifle primers and large pile of the CCI SRM primers.

*I will not put faith in "pressure signs".*

What i am looking for is a reputable source of data using these components, or if someone could use a program such as quick load. No offense to those that use pressure signs, I am just the type that needs measurable data rather than try to infer data from variable brass cased and primers with thick cups that could mask excessive pressure.

Thanks for any help you folks can give.
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Old March 15, 2013, 04:20 AM   #2
sourdough44
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I'd check the Hodgdon site for data. You should be fine with your mag primer, just use the lower end of the charge weights. That's what I would do.
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Old March 15, 2013, 05:46 AM   #3
Jeff2131
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Small magnum primers are not meant to be used in .223. I, personally, would NEVER tinker with with things that were not meant to be used in other things. As stated by some other people, in other posts, their is a reason their are magnum primers and regular primers. Be safe, be smart, and use some common sense. Follow the tested/proven methods and data posted by the manufactures.
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Old March 15, 2013, 05:50 AM   #4
Dave P
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"You should be fine with your mag primer, just use the lower end of the charge weights. That's what I would do."

Same here.
__________________
... still waiting for that stimulus to kick in ...
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Old March 15, 2013, 05:57 AM   #5
ScottRiqui
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Quote:
Small magnum primers are not meant to be used in .223

The CCI #41 that the OP is using is a small rifle magnum primer designed specifically for military-style semiautomatics.

OP - if all you want is a plinking load, start at the bottom of the charge range and work up until the load cycles your gun reliably. That should give you something that will work, while keeping you well away from potential overpressure.
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Old March 15, 2013, 08:46 AM   #6
overthere
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I have loaded and shot several hundreds of rounds of 223 using small rifle magnum primers without any issues. All of them with Varget and H322. I use wolf small rifle magnum primers, not cci. I have one set of 50 pcs of LC brass that are on their ninth reload with magnum primers and varget and they look great, no split necks or signs of stress.
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Old March 15, 2013, 09:44 AM   #7
steve4102
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Quote:
Small magnum primers are not meant to be used in .223.
Come on now Jeff, you know this isn't so. Do you happen to have Speer manual? Plenty of load data in the 223 section with CC 450 Mag primers. As stated above the #41 is a Mag primer and is recommended for the 223/5.56 AR type rifles.
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Old March 15, 2013, 10:54 AM   #8
.22lr
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Quote:
Do you happen to have Speer manual? Plenty of load data in the 223 section with CC 450 Mag primers.
Well, now I just feel stuipd.

I checked Hodgdon, Hornady, Sierria... but i didn't check the speer manual sitting in a drawer of my reloading bench.

Quote:
So let me see if I understand you correctly. You don't trust pressure signs but you'll trust what someone on the internet tells you is safe. "Well if it's on the internet is has to be true" right?
Nope, you completly misunderstood. But this thread isn't about wether or not massive over pressure can be masked by diffrent makes of primers and brass, or if the pressure signs show up when the load is already WELL beyond the pressure envelope of the round. It isn't even about wether asking for a:
Quote:
a reputable source of data using these components, or if someone could use a program such as quick load
somehow constitutes trusting something on the internet.

I have my answer!

Thank you steve4102!

I still want a pressure barrel setup. But I'm a nerd like that.
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Old March 16, 2013, 06:44 AM   #9
Jeff2131
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I am using the Nosler 6th edition. No where does it state anything about the use of magnums in .223 or 5.56. Ive been taught that you should ALWAYS stick to the components that are designed and meant for your loads. If you have a manual that specifys magnums if a .223/5.56 then by all means, follow the published data and be safe.
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Old March 16, 2013, 06:56 AM   #10
rebs
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I didn't know that CCI #41 were magnum primers. I was under the impression that they just had a harder cup to prevent bump fires with the free floating firing pin in AR 15's.
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Old March 16, 2013, 07:00 AM   #11
ScottRiqui
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Quote:
I am using the Nosler 6th edition. No where does it state anything about the use of magnums in .223 or 5.56.
I'm fairly sure that the Remington 7-1/2 "benchrest" primer that Nosler recommends in that guide uses a magnum priming compound, and is hotter than the regular Remington 6-1/2 small rifle primer. Likewise, their 1-1/2 small pistol primer is the "regular", and the 5-1/2 small pistol primer is for "magnum" applications, even though it's not explicitly labeled as such.

It's the same situation as the CCI #41 "NATO" primer. It's not labeled "magnum" on the packaging, but if you dig around in their literature a little bit, you'll find that it uses magnum priming compound and that they recommend treating it as a magnum primer for loading purposes.

Last edited by ScottRiqui; March 16, 2013 at 07:06 AM.
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Old March 16, 2013, 07:06 AM   #12
ScottRiqui
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Quote:
I didn't know that CCI #41 were magnum primers. I was under the impression that they just had a harder cup to prevent bump fires with the free floating firing pin in AR 15's.
It does have a harder cup for the reason you gave, but the CCI #41 (and the large rifle equivalent, #34), are also magnum primers.

From the CCI page on #41 and #34:

"Use the same data as CCI Magnum primers"
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Old March 16, 2013, 08:31 AM   #13
steve4102
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Quote:
I'm fairly sure that the Remington 7-1/2 "benchrest" primer that Nosler recommends in that guide uses a magnum priming compound
Note the flash from the 7 1/2 primer compared to the other Small Rifle primers.

http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html

There is also this.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/primers.asp

And this from Hornady #7.

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Old March 16, 2013, 08:42 AM   #14
ScottRiqui
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Thanks for that - I found similar cross-reference charts, but I didn't post them since I was hoping to find something directly from Remington's literature, like I did with CCI.

Of course, if the 7-1/2 *isn't* Remington's small rifle magnum primer, then the obvious questions would be "what's the difference between the 6-1/2 and the 7-1/2, then?" and "which of their primers *is* the small rifle magnum version?"

With all that considered, plus all the third-party information out there, the obvious answer is that the 7-1/2 is the magnum primer, like your post supports.
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Old March 16, 2013, 09:22 AM   #15
steve4102
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There are more charts out there, but like you said, nothing from Remington.

http://www.lasc.us/primerchart.htm

http://www.precisionreloading.net/?page_id=745

http://www.grafs.com/catalog/tech-re...roductId/22286

http://unitedstatesshooting.com/wordpress/?p=1881
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Old March 17, 2013, 07:47 PM   #16
rebs
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I have been reloading some 5.56/223 55 gr bullets with 24.0 gr and some with 24.9 gr of H335 powder and using both CCI#400 and CCI#41 primers thinking the #41 was just a thicker cup, I haven't run into any problems or seen any difference in accuracy with either primer.Have I just been lucky or with both loads being under max the reason I seen no difference between the two primers ?
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