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Old March 13, 2013, 08:08 PM   #1
TunnelRat
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M&P 9c: First Time Out

Hi all,
Tonight was my first time shooting the M&P 9c. I got to the range right at sunset so I wasn't expecting much in terms of accuracy, mostly was just a function check. The pistol cycled all 50 rds of Federal Champion without issue, well mostly (more later). While the pistol doesn't feel as good in my hand as other pistols, XDm or HK, I find it points very naturally. I was surprised to find myself shooting ragged holes at 10 yards when I couldn't really make out more than the silhouette. Honestly the accuracy was very impressive. I find I shoot it better than my XDm and this is with the M&P completely stock. In fact the trigger is actually decent. It's a good 6 lbs with a lot of overtravel, but no grit and I think it's fine for a CCW or service pistol. I am in no hurry to do an APEX trigger kit. The firearm also recovers quickly and shooting with speed is a breeze, despite it's relatively light weight. I like the magazine with the extension a bit more, but I notice no loss in control or accuracy with the flush mag (can get my pinky half on). The mag springs were super stiff. I ended up going with the small backstrap and it seems to work fine.

Now to the not so great but not bad news. Ejection. Ejection was interesting. A lot to the chest, a lot bouncing over the head, not really to the face. Not every shot was this way but a good percentage. I didn't have this issue with the previous two M&Ps I owned. Likely part of it was the fact I was using Federal Champion which is admittedly weak. That being said, the XDm ate that stuff from day one (I have to be honest). I'm leaving the slide locked back over night and next time I will try to bring some hotter ammo (I can barely find 9mm as it is). I honestly think the springs breaking in or hotter ammo will solve the issue given what I saw, but I will update accordingly.

Even with the ejection I was impressed, truly. My first M&P 9 fullsize felt like Russian roulette when I shot it, never could seem to get it down. But this felt very natural. Assuming the ejection works itself out I can see it becoming my daily carry.
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Old March 13, 2013, 08:58 PM   #2
swcc22
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Re: M&P 9c: First Time Out

My ar ejects in to my right cheak a lot I just ignore it and keep on but every once in awile I get one down the shirt now that sucks.
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Old March 14, 2013, 08:50 AM   #3
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Yea if it does it with hotter ammo then I will be concerned. I have some 124 gr American Eagle I will try next time.
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Old March 14, 2013, 09:40 AM   #4
rgillis
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I have both the 9compact and the 9 full size M&P's. The compact came first and has been a flawless performer.

The full size 9 came 6 months ago and the differences between the triggers is night and day. The compact's trigger while long and with a less than positive reset was from the beginning without the grittiness I've heard so much about and breaks at just below 5lbs. The full size trigger was exactly as reported by others, gritty, gritty, gritty, and is currenty being upgraded to the apex system.

I enjoy both and have decided I prefer them to my G19.

What exactly did you not like about your full size M&P, I'm not sure I'm following you? Just curious
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Old March 14, 2013, 09:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
What exactly did you not like about your full size M&P
The accuracy. At say 15 yards plus it would be all over the place. There are documented cases of accuracy issues with some M&P 9mm fullsize models.
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Old March 14, 2013, 10:10 AM   #6
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Sounds more like documented cases of shooters that can't group with any pistol. We have m&p9c and i am very happy with group size after a trigger kit from apex. I also don't have the eyes I once had but can still shot this pistol very well.

Improve the junk trigger and groups size tends to shrink in size with a better trigger. No brass in face issues but ammo maybe some of the problem. Our throws brass up and back left. My kanrs throw it over the wall at the indoor range pelleting shooters next to me. hehe

I do tend to like the longer trigger pull in the compact model over the short rest in some full sized pistols.
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Old March 14, 2013, 10:47 AM   #7
TunnelRat
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Quote:
Sounds more like documented cases of shooters that can't group with any pistol.
Ah the age old logic of "I haven't had any problems with my pistol, so any problems people are reporting must be them". I agree when I read "accuracy" complaints I become skeptical too. But there have been a lot of reports over on the S&W forums about this issue, again only with certain M&Ps. Many of these users try another M&P and find the problems go away. It got the point where APEX tactical was talking about fabricating their own locking blocks for M&Ps in 9mm to work on the issues. With that much behind it I begin to believe there might be some truth to it.
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Old March 14, 2013, 10:49 AM   #8
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I've got a m&p9c and it shoots very well. I really like this pistol but don't recall any problems with ejection. Most of my shooting has been with my reloads, i.e., either 125 grain lead round nose with 5.0 grains of W231 or 115 grain JHP with 5.0 grains of the same powder.

Perhaps these loads are hot enough? Load data gives ~1100 fps with the former and ~1170 with the latter. I'm not sure what the Federal load you are shooting is at.
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Old March 14, 2013, 10:50 AM   #9
TunnelRat
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Quote:
I've got a m&p9c and it shoots very well. I really like this pistol but don't recall any problems with ejection. Most of my shooting has been with my reloads, i.e., either 125 grain lead round nose with 5.0 grains of W231 or 115 grain JHP with 5.0 grains of the same powder.

Perhaps these loads are hot enough? Load data gives ~1100 fps with the former and ~1170 with the latter. I'm not sure what the Federal load you are shooting is at.
Thanks, that might really give me a good idea! I'll look up the load data for that and then compare it to what you're saying. Wish I'd gotten into reloading before this madness.
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Old March 14, 2013, 10:59 AM   #10
Will Beararms
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So in truth, the smith is the same price as a Glock after the Apex trigger right?
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Old March 14, 2013, 11:04 AM   #11
TunnelRat
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Quote:
So in truth, the smith is the same price as a Glock after the Apex trigger right?
Mine was $530, apex trigger would add $90. But for this model I honestly don't think I am going to do the APEX trigger. A heavy trigger that is smooth is fine to me, I used the APEX kit mostly for the grit. I would also say that after the APEX kit it's not apples to apples, the M&P trigger would be a good deal better than the Glock at that point (just IMO).
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Old March 14, 2013, 11:58 AM   #12
vba
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Oh I forgot, the trigger on my M&P9c is perfect for me. Is was the slightess bit gritty at first but after a couple of hundred rounds and some dry fire it is very smooth.

Will definitely not be doing any trigger mods on mine.
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Old March 14, 2013, 12:32 PM   #13
Will Beararms
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I agree with leaving the pistol alone for a while anyway. Why make any adjustments or modifications until you have had 1,000 to 2,000 rounds downrange? Who knows? The trigger might turn out to be wonderful after it has had time to break in.

My take is the Smith is a good weapon but like the Glock, mad made so there will be issues from time to time. I like the way they feel in the hand as compared to the Glock

Sooner or later, all here and all shooters for that matter learn that all makes can be defective out of the box and ALL will crap out with enough rounds downrange.

I tell people when they ask me what to buy stick with these makers: Beretta, Glock, HK, Sig and Smith and Wesson. When they ask what "about" this other brand, I repeat my answer. I have my reasons and though quality is paramount, logistics and proven service record are also critical.
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Old March 14, 2013, 06:11 PM   #14
rgillis
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Quote:
The accuracy. At say 15 yards plus it would be all over the place. There are documented cases of accuracy issues with some M&P 9mm fullsize models.
TR
This has been my experience as well, which is why I'm going with the apex system on the full size. I group tighter with the compact than I do with the full size.....opposite of what I would have expected.

Thanks
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Old March 14, 2013, 06:24 PM   #15
Shoot45's
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Dear Rat,

A Glock 26 will solve any problems you're having with your M&P.
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Old March 14, 2013, 06:37 PM   #16
TunnelRat
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Quote:
This has been my experience as well, which is why I'm going with the apex system on the full size. I group tighter with the compact than I do with the full size.....opposite of what I would have expected.
Honestly unless you notice a massive difference in the triggers it will likely make some difference but maybe not a ton. The issues I was referring to relate to the lockup of the fullsize pistols, not their triggers.

Quote:
A Glock 26 will solve any problems you're having with your M&P.
Amusing since the last two Glock 19s I've had did nothing but spit brass into the faces of their shooters.
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Old March 14, 2013, 09:07 PM   #17
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S&W M&P 9mm trigger job DIY

Thought I'd post this up here.

http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com/mi...triggerjob.pdf

And yes I have done it and it works like a champ. Tetra Gun lube on the trigger and sear make it even better.
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Old March 15, 2013, 06:20 PM   #18
kahrguy
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The price of a new m&p9c at our lgs is 483. today . It was a single order price that was a bit higher than normal. A striker block replacement from apex is 39 dollars. glock gen 3 at 509. gen 4 is 550 here. I simply like the m&p grip much better than any glock.

Accuracy!! The ammo used sure can change how accurate a pistol can be, even where it prints on target. And just like with a rifle barrel different, some have a likeing for different labels of ammo and weights even with in the same line of firearms.

Luck of the draw!! Our last glock 17 was nothing special with the same practice ammo that shot so well in the shorter barreled m&p . Both shot the same +P HP ammo very egualy aswell. Just the way production barrels react to a given load.

Last edited by kahrguy; March 15, 2013 at 06:26 PM.
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Old March 15, 2013, 10:39 PM   #19
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The M&P Compacts look cool to me because of the extended mags being slanted. I think it looks better than the extension on the Shield personally.
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Old March 16, 2013, 10:15 AM   #20
skoro
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M&P 9c: First Time Out

Quote:
Mine was $530, apex trigger would add $90. But for this model I honestly don't think I am going to do the APEX trigger. A heavy trigger that is smooth is fine to me, I used the APEX kit mostly for the grit. I would also say that after the APEX kit it's not apples to apples, the M&P trigger would be a good deal better than the Glock at that point (just IMO).
TR -

I got my M&P9c five years ago. At first, its trigger was kinda stiff and I thought I wasn't going to warm up to the pistol as a result. But the accuracy was good and it fit my hand so well I stuck with it. After a few hundred rounds, that trigger smoothed out very nicely and I now have absolutely no complaints.

I've never shot the American Eagle ammo, so can't comment on the ejection issue. I shoot mostly Winchester White Box and have never experienced a problem. Could be that your extractor claw might need a teensy little bit of polishing.
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Old March 16, 2013, 10:56 AM   #21
vba
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Well, I just got out my Lyman Revolver and Pistol loading manual. I stated above that the site Load Data gives ~1170 fps with a 115 grain HP with 5.0 grains of W231.

The Lyman manual gives 1253 fps at 32,100 CUP with 4.9 grains of W231 and this is the MAXIMUM load! I've got an older manual where I got 5.0 grains but don't have it in front of me now. The manual stated the data came from a 4" Universal Receiver.

This same manual lists a 4.2 grain Maximum load with a 125 grain pointed cast bullet for 1116 fps and again I'm using 5.0 grains with a 125 grain round nose cast lead bullet. Anyway, my loads shoot very well at 5.0 grains and I'm not changing anything. No pressure signs and no ejection problems.

The only thing I could find on velocity for Federal 9mm Champion was a post in the highroad which stated that Champion is 1120 fps and American Eagle is 1180 fps for the 115 grain load. There are references on the net to Champion being under powered and therefore causes ejection problems.

Hope this helps...
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Old March 16, 2013, 07:40 PM   #22
TunnelRat
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Second range day:

So...it didn't go very well.

What did I do in an attempt to remedy any spring issues? Left the slide locked back for a good 60 hrs. I also cycled the slide the slide fully back a good 500 times.

Got to the range and put another 150 rds through it. 100 was 124gr American Eagle and the rest, 50, was 115gr Federal Champ. The good news was the accuracy was still great. The bad news was the ejection was just as bad. I didn't see any improvement in the ejection at all. It didn't seem to make any difference which ammo I shot. A lot of brass off the forehead. The casings that didn't hit me just barely cleared my right shoulder. It was really a bummer. I tried the same ammo through my XDm and HK that I had with me, no issues whatsoever. I sadly think this is destined for a trip back to S&W.
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Old March 17, 2013, 10:28 AM   #23
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I notice my M&P9 is more sensitive to where I place my finger on the trigger. It groups just fine either way but the midpoints of the groups will be an inch or two apart.

The biggest danger I've found with the 9c is if you hurry a reload and don't get your finger out of the way you can end up with a blood blister from getting pinched between the magazine base and the grip. I've a class coming up next month and anticipate getting pinched a few times. I mostly shoot a full-sized M&P45 and didn't anticipate this particular problem.
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Old March 19, 2013, 09:50 PM   #24
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Called S&W today. Spoke to a nice man, said best course of action is to send it in. They're sending me a shipping label. Will be sad to see it go, really like it regardless. But hopefully it will be back within a month.
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Old March 22, 2013, 12:53 PM   #25
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S&W 9C Same Problem

I'm right there with you. Last night was my 2nd trip to the range with the same problems you have. Mine has maybe 100 rounds thru it but yesterday was worse than the 1st time. S&W is sending me a shipping label so off it will go. I hope we have good luck with this issue.
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