The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 6, 2013, 04:43 PM   #1
Nickel Plated
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 529
Maverick 88 PGO from the factory.

Just wanted to know if Mossberg offers the Maverick 88 as a PGO.
I'm really interested in making one of those non-NFA 14" shotguns for myself as a range toy, but the legality of the whole thing hangs on it never having had a stock attached to it. So simply swapping a pistol grip on the thing won't cut it (atleast not if someone decides to really look into the history of that particular gun)
So I need one that came as a PGO straight from the factory. However looking at Mossberg's site, the Mavericks seem to only be available with stocks.
Nickel Plated is offline  
Old March 6, 2013, 05:07 PM   #2
BigD_in_FL
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: The "Gunshine State"
Posts: 1,981
You can't. It will still be an AOW (Mossberg makes the PGO 500)and require a $5 tax stamp (registration)

And in Brooklyn ( where at?) I doubt it will become a reality during the current "stuff" happening
BigD_in_FL is offline  
Old March 6, 2013, 05:12 PM   #3
keenanred
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2013
Posts: 5
moss 500

can you put a stock on a moss 500 pistol grip, no it has never had a stock on it, and what is a pgo
keenanred is offline  
Old March 6, 2013, 05:16 PM   #4
BigD_in_FL
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: The "Gunshine State"
Posts: 1,981
IF you put a stock on a PGO, then you can never go AOW on shortening the barrel.

PGO is "pistol grip only"
BigD_in_FL is offline  
Old March 6, 2013, 05:22 PM   #5
keenanred
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2013
Posts: 5
ok

ok so it is legal, thanks
keenanred is offline  
Old March 6, 2013, 06:32 PM   #6
Nickel Plated
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 529
Quote:
You can't. It will still be an AOW (Mossberg makes the PGO 500)and require a $5 tax stamp (registration)

And in Brooklyn ( where at?) I doubt it will become a reality during the current "stuff" happening
The PGO guns Mossberg makes are not AOWs.

Here's a quick run-down for those not familiar with this legal oddity.
If you have a shotgun that NEVER had a stock on it (ala Pistol-grip only) it is by legal definition not a "shotgun". Since it is not shoulder-fired.
Thus it can not be classified as a short barreled shotgun, since it was never a shotgun to begin with.
It also can not be classified as an AOW as long as the overall length stays over 26". The prerequisite to be an AOW is it must be concealable (which the ATF defines as under 26")

So if you have a shotgun that is PGO from the factory you can cut the barrel down as short as you want, as long a you keep the whole thing over 26" and never attach a stock to it. It will simply be classified as a "firearm" Just like a stripped AR lower.
With a Mossberg 500, if you install one of those birdshead grips on it you can cut the barrel down to 14.5" (flush with the mag tube) and still remain over 26" OAL.
As far as I can see neither NYS or City seem to have any additional laws regarding this issue. As such it's as legal as any other pump gun. I know, AMAZING. I figured there would be some kind of law broken by this thing. But NOOOPE.

I know Mossberg 500s come with PGOs from the factory. But I prefer the Maverick's safety position so would really rather do it with one of those if possible.

Edit: Link http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

Last edited by Nickel Plated; March 6, 2013 at 06:42 PM.
Nickel Plated is offline  
Old March 6, 2013, 07:20 PM   #7
BigD_in_FL
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: The "Gunshine State"
Posts: 1,981
Never said they were, BUT if you want to cut down the barrel to 14, and you start with a PGO, then you have a AOW
BigD_in_FL is offline  
Old March 6, 2013, 07:27 PM   #8
Pezo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2005
Location: Macomb, Mich
Posts: 629
I'd just get a tax stamp and avoid the 10 years and 250,000 dollar fine
Pezo is offline  
Old March 6, 2013, 07:28 PM   #9
BigD_in_FL
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: The "Gunshine State"
Posts: 1,981
^^^Bingo
BigD_in_FL is offline  
Old March 6, 2013, 07:50 PM   #10
Nickel Plated
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 529
There is no 10 years and $250,000 because these are completely legal. What's there to avoid? I can understand abiding by the law, but some here seem to be all too willing to abide by laws that don't even exist.

Not to mention that SBSs and AOWs are illegal here so you can't get one even if you were willing to pay for the stamp. The whole point of this is it's neither of those so you can own it just like any regular shotgun.

Anyway it's getting kinda off-topic. I didn't come here to discuss the legality of this as it's already been covered many times in many places including on TFL.

I just want to know if Mossberg makes Mavericks in PGO configuration.
Nickel Plated is offline  
Old March 6, 2013, 08:03 PM   #11
Pezo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2005
Location: Macomb, Mich
Posts: 629
Federal law a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" with a stock is a sbs, without a stock is an aow ( smooth bore barrel cannot be a hand gun ). Less than 26" overall and or less than an 18" barrel shotgun requires a tax stamp assuming you also don't violate state law ( New York likely ).
Pezo is offline  
Old March 6, 2013, 08:36 PM   #12
kozak6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,322
It's not about abiding by laws that don't exist. It's about giving yourself a margin of safety. 14" factory PGO's are only technically legal because it hinges on BATFE interpretation of NFA law.

If they wanted to, they could change their mind and throw you in the slammer, easy as that.

A few inches of barrel aren't worth potential prison time.
kozak6 is offline  
Old March 6, 2013, 09:07 PM   #13
keenanred
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2013
Posts: 5
ok

thank you for the info and sorry bout that nickel
keenanred is offline  
Old March 7, 2013, 02:41 AM   #14
TxGun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2008
Location: Texas Hill Country ranch
Posts: 437
Putting quite a bit of faith on what appears to be a rather obscure technicality. I can see someone explaining the nuances of this to BATFE agents as they are leading him out the door in cuffs .
TxGun is offline  
Old March 7, 2013, 07:51 PM   #15
Nickel Plated
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 529
Or you know, just keep the letter form the technical branch stating that it's fine.

While I am aware that this is all based on a ruling that ATF can reverse at pretty much any moment, this ruling has been in place since the 1960s and doesn't look to be going anywhere anytime soon. Even if it did I would hear of it. It's not like ATF agents will swoop in to take me away the second the ruling changes. Once it does, swap the barrel back to 18" and say "Welp, that was fun while it lasted"

Again, can I just get a straight answer to my question?
I see Serbu builds their Super Shorties as AOWs from Mavericks that had pistol grips on them. So they must be out there, however when I search the net for a PGO Mav 88 they are nowhere to be found. Except for ones where people simply stuck a grip on an originally stocked gun. Have the PGO models been discontinued?
Nickel Plated is offline  
Old March 9, 2013, 07:41 PM   #16
Jeremy5248
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2013
Posts: 1
Raptor Grip for Mossberg/Maverick

I just bought the Raptor Grip from Shockwave Technologies. It's a great option if you're looking to shorten the overall length. Plus, it's better ergonomically than the standard pistol grip. Installation time is less than five minutes and it fits perfect. Quality material and sturdy feel make this a great buy. Add the fact that it's $29.95 and shipping was super quick. Below are a few pictures of the Raptor Grip on my Maverick 88. It is also compatible with the Mossberg 500.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 001.jpg (276.5 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 005.jpg (250.0 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 007.jpg (234.2 KB, 9 views)
Jeremy5248 is offline  
Old March 12, 2013, 10:17 PM   #17
Nickel Plated
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 529
Yeah that's the kind of grip I was thinking of using. Except I want wood so likely have to make my own. But in that style.

Anyway it looks like this thread is kind of dead so I'll just toss in a somewhat relevant question that I have been wondering about.

Since an AOW, like this non-NFA 14.5" shotgun can only be made from a shotgun that was never legally classed as a "shotgun" (aka, no stock)
How do people make Remington 870 AOWs since AFAIK all 870s are made with stocks on them? Do they source bare receivers somewhere?
Nickel Plated is offline  
Old March 16, 2013, 02:22 AM   #18
kozak6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,322
You could probably special order whatever you need from Remington if you had a large enough order.
kozak6 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10535 seconds with 10 queries