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Old March 12, 2013, 07:57 PM   #1
Aguila Blanca
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A real downer of a day

I'm currently on an assignment working out of the field office of a large construction site. This afternoon I was chatting with one of the engineers about reloading supplies (the lack thereof) when in walked his office mate, who is (like me) an older dude and a fellow Vietnam combat veteran. (Disclaimer: He's a Marine, I was just Army.) The other guy immediately launched into a diatribe about how nobody needs high capacity magazines, he's a hunter and he's killed people in Vietnam and anybody who needs more than two shots doesn't have any business carrying a gun, yada yada.

I was stunned. I heard the same garbage (and more) from the supervising engineer two weeks ago, but he's NOT a veteran and he's a hopeless liberal in every way imaginable. I have never heard a fellow Vietnam veteran spout this kind of nonsense. With friends like this, who needs enemies?

Then I arrived at home, opened my personal e-mail, and found a message from one of my U.S. senators (both of whom I have written multiple times to ask them NOT to vote for any new gun control laws), asking me to sign his petition in support of a stronger AWB, magazine capacity limits, universal background checks, the whole litany the gun grabbers' agenda.

If I were a drinking man, I'd be drunk by now. As it is, I think I'll just go to bed and pull the blankets over my head.
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Old March 12, 2013, 08:05 PM   #2
SPEMack618
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Eh, a campaign ribbon isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of one's stand on Constitutional Rights. Sadly.

General McChrystal, who was once one of the most respected guys in uniform stated that the .223 was too powerful for civillians. This coming from the guy who was Commander, JSOC when they were evaluating the SCAR-H.

Captain Kelly is against magazine fed semi-automatic rifles as is Sen. MacCain.

General Clark, who led the mission in Kosovo stated that if someone wants an "assualt weapon" they should join the military.

Heck, my PDM, who never fired a weapon until he went to basic and took to it, was stunned that you could buy an M-1A at the gun store. Even more so when I informed about the Super Match version of it was probably made better than his M-21.
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Old March 12, 2013, 09:43 PM   #3
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Captain Kelly is a hypocrite. He was recently seen in Arizona buying an AR15 and several 30 round magazines. Also bought an automatic pistol.
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Old March 12, 2013, 09:57 PM   #4
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AB,

I can sympathize... I know several folks that are around your age and are either totaly against firearm ownership, or were to some extent. Ive been able to get some to go from being "against", to being "everyone has their own interest" or similar trains of thought. I had the best response by showing them there was several of their interest/hobbies/thoughts I was totally against personally, but let them lead their lives as they see fit without imposing my views on them. After a bit some slowly came around.
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Old March 12, 2013, 10:35 PM   #5
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Aquila Blanca ... all I can add is:

"God is great ... beer is good ... people are crazy."

What I throw back at anyone stupid enough to try to tell me how much ammunition or how many rounds per magazine they think I need is:

"I need one more magazine than it takes to get the job done."

To all those psalm-singing, gun-grabbing, unicorn-raising, wrong-thinking folks out there ... nobody who was ever in a nasty firefight ever complained about having too much ammunition. I, for one, don't ever intend on trying to challenge that belief!
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Old March 12, 2013, 11:21 PM   #6
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My standard reply is, 'If you find yourself in the fight of your life and the you are only person between your family and a couple of violent criminals, just how many cartridges is too many? As for myself, I prefer to have way more ammo available than anyone attacking me or my family. And we all know that criminals do not obey the purchasing laws any more than they obey the murder laws. So why should a law abiding person be restricted when the criminal will not be?"

I wonder what your co-worker would do if there were three attackers? Shoot twice and yell Bang! at the third? I suppose he has never had a misfire or a feed jam, that is if he shoots at all.
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Old March 13, 2013, 12:34 AM   #7
chris in va
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Captain Kelly is a hypocrite. He was recently seen in Arizona buying an AR15 and several 30 round magazines. Also bought an automatic pistol.
He bought the AR as a publicity stunt to capitalize on how easy it is to get one. It was donated to the local PD IIRC. He did keep the 1911 however.
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Old March 13, 2013, 12:36 AM   #8
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He bought the AR as a publicity stunt to capitalize on how easy it is to get one.
Well, that's his story, but even assuming it's true, I'm not sure what point he's trying to make. He had to fill out the 4473 and go through the background check, so what's his complaint - that the NICS check is TOO quick, and therefore there's no way it could be effective?
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Old March 13, 2013, 01:44 AM   #9
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He's a Marine, I was just Army.
Just? Don't be so hard on yourself.

And thanks for serving!
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Old March 13, 2013, 01:48 AM   #10
Gaerek
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A real downer of a day

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris in va View Post
He bought the AR as a publicity stunt to capitalize on how easy it is to get one. It was donated to the local PD IIRC. He did keep the 1911 however.
That's what he said after he was caught anyway. He's also publicly said he plans to keep the 1911 he bought. He hasn't picked up the AR yet because of a municipal rule about gun stores selling used guns (they have to wait a certain amount of time before the can release the gun to make sure it wasn't used in a crime.)

The store he bought it from is a store I frequent. Speaking with some of the workers there, they didn't get the impression that he was doing anything outwardly political, however, he didn't talk to anyone, or even answer questions from anyone, either customer or employee, unless it had to do directly with the sale. Personally, I'm going with hypocrite caught in the act of hypocrisy, now trying to backpedal.
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Old March 13, 2013, 05:37 AM   #11
thedudeabides
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I have a friend who spent 4 years in Afghanistan. He is rabidly left wing and anti gun.

His wife was recently mugged and asked him for a gun and CHL classes and he told her: "if you had a gun, you'd probably have been killed and not just robbed."
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Old March 13, 2013, 08:16 AM   #12
Dwight55
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To all those psalm-singing, gun-grabbing, unicorn-raising, wrong-thinking folks out there ... nobody who was ever in a nasty firefight ever complained about having too much ammunition. I, for one, don't ever intend on trying to challenge that belief!
Thank you Romeo33Delta, . . . my feelings exactly.

I had a friend who quite stupidly found himself (loooooong story) in a serious firefight on the bit air port in Saigon (Tan San Nhut, . . . sp????). He had a 45 with one mag in it, . . . cornered in one of those corregated metal quonset huts.

He stacked up the first three or four who tried coming in the door and only survived by rolling over against the wall and playing dead. As it was he was bayoneted twice and left for dead.

Yep, . . . don't want to run out of ammo, . . . and to the OP, . . . just stand your ground, . . . I ran into the same quality of people when I came home from RVN in '68. They eventually all move to Florida or get shot in a bar fight, . . . better days are coming.

May God bless,
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Old March 13, 2013, 08:22 AM   #13
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Well, that's his story, but even assuming it's true, I'm not sure what point he's trying to make. He had to fill out the 4473 and go through the background check, so what's his complaint - that the NICS check is TOO quick, and therefore there's no way it could be effective?
Yeah, he wants it to be really hard to buy a firearm, in fact if you aren't utterly exasperated by the time you finish the process and feel like you've been to the proctologist then it was too easy.

He uses his 2A rights to undermine the 2A, which makes me ill. His next task is to execute a private sale at a gun show. I hope whoever's selling recognizes him and refuses to sell him a cleaning kit, let alone a rifle.
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Old March 13, 2013, 08:25 AM   #14
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That's funny. Perhaps they could go to California instead though. I would hate to have them takeover Florida because they'll just eventually spread their b.s. to the rest of the southeastern region like the California ones did to Colorado.
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Old March 13, 2013, 09:30 AM   #15
Theohazard
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He's a Marine, I was just Army
Like Sport45 said, don't sell yourself short; I know a bunch of pretty high-speed Army guys. And as a fellow Marine, I want to apologize for this associate of yours. Apparently he supports undermining the very constitution he swore to defend.
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Old March 13, 2013, 12:13 PM   #16
dajowi
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"he's killed people in Vietnam and anybody who needs more than two shots doesn't have any business carrying a gun..."

In that case the military should just exchange their rifles and pistols for Derringers.
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Old March 13, 2013, 03:09 PM   #17
g.willikers
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Maybe he was artillery.
Two rounds of that might be enough.
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Old March 13, 2013, 04:34 PM   #18
TLeo
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"he's killed people in Vietnam and anybody who needs more than two shots doesn't have any business carrying a gun"

Maybe he has and maybe he hasn't. Most guys I have known who have seen real combat don't brag about killing. I would take his comment with a big grain of salt. Too bad he's such a jerk about it.
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Old March 13, 2013, 05:06 PM   #19
DaleA
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His wife was recently mugged and asked him for a gun and CHL classes and he told her: "if you had a gun, you'd probably have been killed and not just robbed."
Shrug. He might be right. He knows her better than we do. The BIG difference is the gun-grabbers wouldn't want her to have that choice - we would (does that make us pro-choice?).

I also find the INCESSENT drum beat from the gun grabbers discouraging. That the media can’t or won’t provide a balanced look at the issues. That they won’t educate themselves to know what semi-automatic means or continually use the phrase ‘gun violence’ and ‘magazine-clips’. I’ve suggested they use the phrase ‘magazine-clip-thingies’ to cover ALL their bases.

I was heartened in MN to find that a LOT more pro-gun folk than gun-grabbers showed up at our state legislature when the issue was discussed here. I was NOT happy when I found out the gun-grabber legislators left the room after the gun-grabber witnesses testified - they did not even bother to hear what the pro-gun folk had to say. Talk about your closed mind and this in our elected officials!
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Old March 13, 2013, 05:08 PM   #20
breakingcontact
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Re: A real downer of a day

Being in the military does not make you a life long gun advocate. I actually seem to meet more people at the range/IDPA that weren't in the military and are not hunters.
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Old March 13, 2013, 06:12 PM   #21
Glenn E. Meyer
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I had a guy who was in the army tell me that he once fired a 1911 and it damn near tore his arm off! Thing he was in finance.

But I know lots of vets who shoot with us and active folks from the local bases who come out.

Latest analyses of federal laws predict nothing of significance will get passed. That does mean states won't (like NY or CO).
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Old March 13, 2013, 06:39 PM   #22
BudW
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He may be full Bs and not a Marine odd he would talk about killing people thats not the norm I have seen, at any rate he is clueless and the Army takes a back seat no one.
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Old March 13, 2013, 06:47 PM   #23
SPEMack618
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The Army is first in order of march for a reason.

That being said, combat isn't an automatic qualifier to make one either a gun expert or an ardent supporter of Civil Rights. Heck, I have my fair share of pretty little trinkets to pin on and I learn stuff here everyday, mostly from folks that have never been down range.

Heck, General Hamilton "Triple-H" Howze, the man most responsible for introducing the concept of airmobility into the United States Army oversaw the confisication of privately held firearms when he was in command of the paratroopers sent to ensure intergration at Ole Miss.

The kicker being that within a few pages of his autobiography he goes from discussing the confiscation of private weapons to talking about the fine shotguns he used when he went hunting in Germany.

MG Felix Sparks, who fought from Sicily to Dachau was a major advocate of an "assualt weapons" ban in Colorado, after retiring as that States Adjudant General.
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