The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 5, 2013, 03:00 PM   #1
rlc323
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2013
Location: Forgottonia, Il
Posts: 217
Pulling some 30.06 M2 1940

I ran across these cartridges in a old bandoleer that unfortunately mice had chewed on.

I started pulling them and noticed the 150 grain bullet is sealed with some black stuff. I plan to put the cases in the ultrasonic to break it up after depriming and removing the crimps.

I did some research and the powder that they used was 4895 and by looks, weight (49-50 grains), and smell that would seem to be true. I have some new that I compared it to. The military stuff looks perfect so I took some outside and touched it off with a match and it burned fine.

I am sure the brass and bullets are ok. Pretty confident the powder is okay as well. I know the primers are the old corrosive type and I am not using them. Will reprime with Win LR.

Anyone with experience with these please chime in. Thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0002.jpg (175.5 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0003.jpg (132.5 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0001.jpg (101.4 KB, 56 views)
rlc323 is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 03:01 PM   #2
rlc323
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2013
Location: Forgottonia, Il
Posts: 217
The headstamp on the brass matches the stamp on the 60 round bandoleer.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0004.jpg (105.8 KB, 39 views)
rlc323 is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 03:29 PM   #3
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 5,293
Powder is cheap, throw away the 73 year old powder.

Check the inside of the brass for corrosion by shining a light inside each case.

Jimro
__________________
"Gorsh" said Goofy as secondary explosions racked the beaten zone, "Did I do that?"

http://randomthoughtsandguns.blogspot.com/
Jimro is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 03:42 PM   #4
Old Grump
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 9, 2009
Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in
Posts: 3,144
I had some, used it in my M1 till it was gone then stripped the gun down and did a good hot water wash and re-lubed. All but one cartridge was good, the one I didn't shoot had corrosion around the base so I just tossed it. They shot to point of aim the same as my my 1950's ammo did so it was good practice ammo.

If you do pull the bullets I would suggest as jimro said and dump the powder on your lawn or down the toilet and use your own load. The army ammo was specially formulated and you will not duplicate it perfectly so better to just go with what you know works. Old powder dry and sealed in a sealed cartridge is one thing, spilled out into the open air and exposed to the elements makes me a little leery. Never reuse pulled powder.
__________________
Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.
--Daniel Webster--
Old Grump is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 05:17 PM   #5
maggys drawers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2006
Posts: 176
Before you pull them, run them through your seater die and seat them another .010 or so deeper. That breaks the asphaltum seal (that black stuff on the base of the bullet) and makes them a lot easier to pull. The black stuff will wipe right off with a little mineral spirits or other solvent.

Dump the powder on the roses, and check the cases for Berdan primers.
maggys drawers is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 05:31 PM   #6
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,534
"Dump the powder on the roses, and check the cases for Berdan primers."

Milsurp 30-06 that is American made never used berdan primers that I know of. However, hey are definitely corrosive. I the powder smells OK, then it should be good. You can decap those shell with a universal decapping die or you normal sizing ddie. Just ease the decapping pin onto the primer and gently push. A few years back I did that with 600 rounds of WW2 milsurp 06 without any problems. Go slow, be genle and you'll be just fine.
Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
Paul B. is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 06:38 PM   #7
rg1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2001
Posts: 733
It's going to really mess up your ultrasonic fluid. I use some odorless mineral spirits on a rag to cut the black sealant from the necks of the brass and also the tar left on the bullets. I wouldn't trust the old powder but if you think it's ok I wouldn't load them back to 49-50 grains but would cut back to 46.5-47 grains.
rg1 is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 06:58 PM   #8
Ozzieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 4,875
Throw the powder away. Listen to Old Grump.
These are from 1942 and 43 and all I did was dump them in a tumbler for a couple of hours.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1944.jpg (98.1 KB, 34 views)
__________________
“Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.” – Thomas Jefferson.

Politician's are like diapers.
You need to change them often,,,,, for the same reason!
Ozzieman is offline  
Old March 5, 2013, 08:24 PM   #9
rlc323
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2013
Location: Forgottonia, Il
Posts: 217
I appreciate the help. Had a feeling there were some here who had done this before. The bullets pulled fine with the collet puller after I bumped them down a touch with the seater to break the grip of the sealant. The ultrasonic (soap and water) did nothing to the black sealant, but a rag with mineral spirits got the bullets clean, and I dipped a cleaning tip and some patches to do the necks. After de-prime and de-crimp the brass is getting an ultrasonic bath.

The cases inside look good. I had a few with corrosion on the outside that I did not pull. Those four were actually covered with a mud wasp nest and I guess that mud coating kept moisture on the brass over the years.

The powder is now fertilizer, even though I think it was sealed so well it would be fine. I have plenty of 4895 anyway. The way those cartridges were sealed it is no surprise we won WWII. Not only did we have the best soldiers, they had the best equipment.

Deprimed a few, all boxer, with no issue and am getting the feel for taking out the crimp. Minimum starting load in the Lyman 49th is 44 grains of 4895 and the first 5 are going through the old 1903 with that and the original brass and bullets this weekend.
rlc323 is offline  
Old March 7, 2013, 09:41 AM   #10
rlc323
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2013
Location: Forgottonia, Il
Posts: 217
Just to follow up on the M2 Ball ammo endeavour. I sorted out about ten cases that had obvious corrosion problems to the junk brass bucket. After putting the remaining deprimed cases in the ulrasonic, more corrosion was revealed. The tarnish really hid a lot of the small pinhole type corrosion on the outer cases. So out of 50 rounds I got 21 cases that were suitable to reload.

No complaints though, all the pulled bullets are perfect. The price on these was right as well. A nice lady from my wife's work found these in her late fathers garage and asked me to come get them, as she was scared to handle them.

He also had some old swollen paper shotgun shells that I took, and I am almost scared of them. Just going to salvage the shot on those.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0001.jpg (236.0 KB, 28 views)
rlc323 is offline  
Old March 7, 2013, 05:15 PM   #11
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 3,874
That pin hole was probably caused by fuming red nitric acid produced as the gun powder deteriorated. Gun powder is breaking down from the day it leaves the factory. Based on an old paper I looked at “Long Term Compatibility Testing of Double Based Propellants”, McCarty 1974, Temperature accelerates the breakdown, powder will totally deteriorate in hours if at 250 F or higher, days at temperatures above 175 F, weeks to months at temperatures around 140 F, years at temperatures above 100F. If temperatures are kept to 70 F or less the lifetime should be in decades.

Gunpowder is tested by heating in ovens at 150 F. If the stuff fumes in 30 days or less it is unsafe for continued storage.

When gunpowder breaks down it released NOx and nitric acid is a by product. Nitric acid gas will attack brass producing cracks, and what I see in your picture, pinholes.

These images are from a 1969 and 1970 Safety Report. You can see that the military was dumping WW2 ammunition forty years ago. The gunpowder in WW2 ammunition has not gotten better since them.



__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Old March 7, 2013, 10:28 PM   #12
medalguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 31, 2009
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,004
IIRC, that's French made ammo for the 1093 Springfield rifle. It's not generally considered good ammo, so you were very wise to break it down for components.
medalguy is offline  
Old March 8, 2013, 09:19 AM   #13
rlc323
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2013
Location: Forgottonia, Il
Posts: 217
At first I thought the powder was fine and put it all in a tupperware container. When I pulled the bullets it did not smell acrid or like old powder at all. It actually looked fine. Maybe about 1/4 of a pound total.

I decided to pitch the powder after reading the posts here. I took the tupperware lid off and the smell was real strong. That decided it for sure, it was scattered to the wind out in the snowy back yard.

Since the rounds had been stored in the stripper clips a lot of the corrosion was in lines where the cartridges were touching. Any unusual mark inside or out after cleaning got the cartridge rejected.

Last evening I took 4 of my reloaded cartridges out back to my home pistol range and fired them through my 1903. At 50 yards they were about 6 inches high, but all fired perfectly and the now once fired brass looked good.
rlc323 is offline  
Old March 13, 2013, 06:44 PM   #14
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 3,874
Quote:
I decided to pitch the powder after reading the posts here. I took the tupperware lid off and the smell was real strong. That decided it for sure, it was scattered to the wind out in the snowy back yard.
You know, I catch a lot of crap from people who have hoards of old ammunition, hate me for suggesting that the stuff will not last forever, can blow up their firearms, and does not get better with age.

I am glad to know the truth helped someone avoid an unpleasant experience.
__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10068 seconds with 10 queries