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Old March 8, 2013, 10:20 PM   #1
tAKticool
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870 non-MIM (Police version) Extractor install - few issues

Hi all,

I have a newer Remington 870 Tactical, which of course is actually an 870 EXPRESS Tactical (They put 870 Tactical on the receiver making you think you're getting an upgraded gun when its actually just an Express with some features).

Anyway I did really fall in love with this shotgun, I was a M930SPX guy heart and soul but this grew on me. I am in the process of doing upgrades to make it 870P-spec and as awesome as awesome can be. I made a big order of parts from MidwayUSA and they did not have the extractor, which I ordered from Brownells, which came today- rest comes Monday. So I watched the video for the extractor install, looked simply enough, so I figured it would be my Friday night project.




Well I did it but I guess I installed the extractor wrong end up, so I had to try to reverse it. In the attempt to get it out to reverse, I somehow shot the 'extractor plunger' AND the , extractor plunger spring?, out into the gun. I recovered them, did some googling, then figured, what the heck. I put the spring back where I assumed it went, put the plunger back in too, feeling the same tension as before, I put the new Extractor in. Now it looked fine. But I feel like i am having problems. Occasionally I have some binding with the feed/extract. I feel like the extractor is not gripping the shells rim right or over gripping. Occasionally the frist shell doesnt want to get chambered when I push gently on the forend... if I PUSH it it will go in and then I am okay.

and when I rack it a few times w/ shells in to observe it, it extracts the shells, but it certainly doesn't throw them across the room. It just kind of pops them out a little bit. Is that okay? I assumed it would be Mauser'ing them across the hall etc. I feel like something is not right but it does, Look and Work, right? so .. .any advice? Thanks much!
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Old March 8, 2013, 11:11 PM   #2
Dfariswheel
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Something is wrong.
870 extraction force depends on how hard you operate the gun, but normal operation should toss the empty case at least several feet.
Most 870's will not throw a fired case across the range like many guns will.
It's not necessary to forcefully operate an 870 like you're trying to break the gun.

Test the extractor for free movement.
If necessary, disassemble the extractor and inspect the spring and plunger for distortion, debris, and check the spring tunnel in the bolt for debris or anything that interferes with the spring and plunger's free movement.

Check the fit of the extractor to the barrel. It's possible for an Express barrel to interfere with the fit of a milled extractor with the cut in the barrel, and it may be necessary to relieve the slot slightly to clear the extractor.

Inspect the rear edge of the chamber for any sharp raised edges that might cause a shell to stick. These usually don't look like burrs, just a sharp edge that's turned into the chamber slightly.
Especially with cheap shells this can be a problem.

Check the ejector and ejector spring in the left wall of the receiver. The spring should be present and the ejector should not be chipped or broken.

Check the chamber in the barrel for roughness. If it looks a little rough, put some 0000 steel wool on a used bore brush, put the brush on a cleaning rod, chuck the rod in a drill and polish the chamber by running the drill at medium speed, keeping the brush constantly moving.
You can also polish or clean the bore with this, but make sure any screw-in choke is IN THE BARREL so as not to damage the threads.
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Old March 9, 2013, 12:15 PM   #3
tAKticool
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Just wanted to say thanks man.

I redid it this morning because I wasn't happy with it, I am not sure if I made much difference but I think it's "okay" now and am gonna go to the range in a bit to check it out.

I did seem to notice you are right, if I pump it hard on the backstroke, it will expel the round with a little bit of gusto. If you just coax it back, the shell doesn't leave the receiver. Now in the original extractor it did in fact remove it albeit weakly; however, I chalk that up to the fact the new extractor is in fact a little sturdier/heavier/etc. and needs a bit more energy to make things work.

As far as everything else, I THINK its all good- I have barely scratched the surface of breaking this baby in, admittedly. I got it in October, took it out twice. I am a big believer in breaking weapons in properly... for shotguns I have a policy I follow- 00 Buckshot to start, as much as I can (as I can afford/have brought/etc) at least a box 15rd or so. Then I try to put as much of a Federal 100pk bulk value birdshot box as i can, if not 2 of them. Then I'll take it home, clean it real good, and try to go repeat the process, which I have done for this baby. So far so good.

I do in fact have some more stuff coming as I mentioned, and even if I go out to day I'll need to go out in a week or two, as I'll be installing the new carrier latch spring, mag spring & follower from Wilson Combat/Scattergun Tech, and hopefully their oversized safety (not sure if I can figure it out.).



All in all a great gun. My M930SPX is my 'last resort' that stays in a certain spot in case of major problem inside the home , I'll have it always . My new 870 TacMagP is more like the roaving gun and I'm having a good time hooking it up and also learning a little bit of gunsmithing as I go.

Thanks again man I'll say what happens at the range a bit later.
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Old March 9, 2013, 10:44 PM   #4
tAKticool
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Just to Update- Failure doh!

Just to update in case you have another idea:

So I though I was looking good this afternoon, I took my Dad to the range... I brought my (newish) 870 and also my really-modded-hooked-up Remington 597 with me to do a little fine tuning/zero check/etc. and he took the Saiga 12 I got him for Christmas and we've been modding/hooking up/making a project out of. I had installed a quad rail handguard on it and we had some initial probs so we wanted to double check fit/function etc.


Well the place was JAM PACKED, we got separate lanes which sucked, and I wound up with a group of guys and girls on each side of me. They were preppie jokers and I had way better equipment and obviously looked the part because the guys were sneaky glancing and the girls were clearly staring and talking about me. And then after the first 7 shots of the Hornaday Zombie/TAP I had in it for the past 4 months, the second loading of the magazine had a few problems extracting , then locked up completely on the backswing. I mean, would not open for sheit, the extractor somehow grabbed the shell/and the receiver/chamber and was not budging. I took out several tools I handily brought with me, and by now I have 10 sets of eyes watching me to see if I can fix it, and I could not. It TICKED me off to all getout. I put it away, took out the 597 and had fun sniping, but wound up taking the 870 back out when the people all left and tried again. Finally I get it open, and then try to take out the extractor to replace it , only to get the extractor plunger wedged in the bolt and unmoveable. Absolutely redonkulous.

Finally gave up, packed it away and spent the rest of the afternoon having a blast by literally blasting away w/ the Saiga 12 (Having 17 magazines is really fun) and sniping with Federal Bulk Pack 36 gr HP .22LR. I just spent an hour at home working on it, wound up pouring a bunch of CLP liquid into the spot, finally pried the plunger out, got the spring out, wiped them all down and then re-wiped w some CLP, put the spring, plunger, and finally extractor back in.

I am not sure how great its done, imight try taking some pictures tomorrow and see if anyone has some advice or sees something glaringly obvious I did wrong. A quick question- could my gun just not want/not accept the non-MIM Extractor?


Ok and thanks, next week i'll be tackling the carrier latch spring and safety ,might be back for more help.
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Old March 10, 2013, 05:13 PM   #5
Uncle Malice
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I picked up that same 870 Tactical a while back. I wanted to upgrade the 870 P parts as well. I did a bunch of research and discovered that the only things I really cared to upgrade was the extractor, magazine tube spring, and carrier dog spring. I also upgraded to an enlarged safety switch. I rather like the polymer trigger guard and they have actually switched to using the polymer ones for the 870 P now because they are actually stronger. Some people just dig the metal guard, and I'm cool with that. I like the metal guard on my 590A1 too.

This 870 Tactical is a pretty sweet little shotty. I still prefer the 590A1 if I had to grab one, but I do like it better than my 500(in it's stock formation). I like the 870 fore grip design. Considering ordering the Magpul stock.

Really, the only disappointment that i had with the 870 was that the receiver isn't tapped from the factory. If I had known that, I would have gotten one of the ones that had the top rail or ghost rings form the factory. I run a red dot on my 590A1 and it works very well.
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Old March 10, 2013, 09:00 PM   #6
Dfariswheel
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Installation of the extractor is fairly simple.

Get a small pocket size screwdriver and use a stone to lightly round off all sharp edges and corners.

Test fit the extractor in the bolt by slipping it back/down into place. It should fit and move freely.
Remove it.

Inspect the tunnel in the bolt for debris, burrs, or rust, etc. I've found rust, grit, factory metal shavings, etc in new bolts, used bolts can be full of god knows what.

Lube up the spring and plunger and drop them in the hole.

Use the screwdriver to pull the plunger and spring into the bolt tunnel as you slip the extractor back/down into place.

Allow the plunger to seat against the back of the extractor.

Check the extractor for free movement and good spring tension.
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Old March 10, 2013, 09:31 PM   #7
Virginian-in-LA
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Stop and think, and don't worry about who is watching you. If the extractor is gripping the hull and the bolt won't come back, the problem is NOT the extractor. Sounds to me like the hulls were gripping the chamber walls. You likely need to either smooth the chamber or call Remington and let them handle it.
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Old March 10, 2013, 10:42 PM   #8
James K
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The use of MIM seems to raise some questions, but long before the use of MIM*, we used to keep at least a dozen or more 870 extractors on hand to replace broken ones. Replacement, as others have said, is easy, but breaking is a nuisance, and they seemed to break routinely.

When replacing, make sure not only that the spring/plunger hole is clean but that there is nothing interfering with the swing of the extractor itself. I also suggest replacing the spring when you replace the extractor.

*I think the originals were made by running a cutter along a steel bar, then slicing the extractors off with a saw.

Jim
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Old March 11, 2013, 05:41 AM   #9
Virginian-in-LA
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The originals were/are forged. For about the first 47 years, the 1100 used the same extractor as the 870. Autos tend to be harder on them, so they made the one on the 11-87 thicker. In 50 years, through 11 Model 1100s, and 6 Model 870s, I broke one extractor in my 1963 Model 1100 in 1982.
I have noticed a lot of people install new extractors and do not shape the outside of the extractor to approximate the bolt contour. This often leads to a mark in the receiver where it hits it when it comes back.
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Old March 13, 2013, 11:45 AM   #10
tAKticool
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OK Here's the deal:

OK Gents first off thanks for the answers.

First off next, Uncle Malice everything you said is very very similar to me. And I also agree, the polymer trigger assembly/guard for this 870 model(s) is in fact a benefit not a determent/position in need of upgrade. The 590A1 is absolutely awesome and a huge part (IMHO that is) is the classically classy and militaristically badaced parkerizing, and the metal trigger guard. BUT in this case its not something you seek out to switch, I have read more than just a few times that forum posters saying their LEO Department and armorers are replacing their 870P / Duty department 870s with the polymer trigger guard. It really can't accidentally break nor weather.

I did the exact same thing- OK Now here's the meat and potatoes. I redid all the processes on the extractor. Its working. I haven't shot it yet but its dry cycling fine. *I DO THINK* something is up because it doesn't have the same
'grip force' say when you start to cycle and feed a round slowly, the extractor doesnt 'snap' or 'bite' the rim of the shell ...it does once and a while but not all the time. Other than that its okay. i am going to be ordering stuff from midwayusa soon, I am thinking about picking up a few Extractor Plungers and Extractor Plunger Springs and just replacing those two( it's like $4 and $6) and seeing it makes any difference, and then keeping spares. THE ONE THING I NEED A SECOND OPINION ON- maybe perhaps even a third- I was going to order the 870 Marine Magnum extractor plunger & extractor plunger springs rather than normal 870s because, MidwayUSA has them listed and they're not much at all more, I figured why not, must be a little better or something like that right?

Then I Googled it and read how, they will start an instant corroding reaction in the presence of an elecrolyte (read; a drop of simple water) and the two surfaces of metals will soon instantly corrode everything in its path. I am decently smart and fairly scientific but that schtuff was like 15 years back, I cant' be remembering corroding electrolytes and stuff. What gives?


OTHERWISE- I just installed the upgrades in total. Scattergun Technologies Tactical Magazine Spring & Follower (The 870P mag spring is not designed for the 7 shot Tactical its designed for a 5 shot 870P (4+1). Scattergun Tech is Wilson Combat for the uninitiated, and its great... bright yellow green follower is much much more stable and durable, have NOT LOST a shell capacity, so far so good in rugged reliability. Also did the shell lifter 'Carrier Latch Spring' or Carrier Dog Follower Spring... basically its an 1100 part put into the 870Ps, fairly simple. REALLY increases the tension/resistance on the lifter. And finally the Wilson Combat/Scattergun Tech oversized safety. Not too hard either. I watched videos on Youtube and Rem870.com and it was simple even for me.



So we will see how it goes in the immediate future and maybe the weekend after this one when I can hit the range. So far so good and I am happy, I have got almost perfectly completed on my '870 Tactical Magpul Police' lol . Up next is a local Cerakoter I found as soon as I have the money, i am also about to drop $1200 on a most likely AICS for my R700 but have not decided on the stock yet, 75% AICS 15% McMillan %10 HS Precision... 1 % field lol.
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Old March 13, 2013, 06:02 PM   #11
Virginian-in-LA
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Different metals will always corrode in the presence of an electrolyte, An electrolyte is a medium which has free electrons. Water has them, and salt water has more. The further apart the metals are on the potential chart determines the corrosion rate when an electrolyte is present. It is usually in like mils/year.
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