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Old March 7, 2013, 05:03 PM   #26
Swampman1
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Location: South Louisiana
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Quote:
I have been on a firearm background check DELAY since Jan. 4th, 2013. Oregon State Police said it was flagged by the Feds for a Driving While Suspended in 1979 – Feds said DWS is a Felony. Funny thing is this was a charge and dropped with no court appearance. But as you all know everything on you record never comes off even if dropped, found not guilty.
Oregon State Police is finding the court records and sending them to the Feds showing it was dropped. So you are guilty of everything until you prove otherwise
Criminals who follow NO rules, see this story and laugh.
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Old March 7, 2013, 08:10 PM   #27
Salmoneye
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http://www.oregon.gov/osp/id/docs/de...nal_011509.pdf

Page 11

Quote:
(3)(a) Upon receipt of a request of the gun dealer for a criminal history record check,
the department shall immediately, during the gun dealer’s telephone call or by return
call:
(A) Determine, from criminal records and other information available to it, whether
the purchaser is disqualified under ORS 166.470 from completing the purchase; and
(B) Notify the dealer when a purchaser is disqualified from completing the transfer or
provide the dealer with a unique approval number indicating that the purchaser is
qualified to complete the transfer.
(b) If the department is unable to determine if the purchaser is qualified or
disqualified from completing the transfer within 30 minutes, the department shall notify
the dealer and provide the dealer with an estimate of the time when the department will
provide the requested information.
(c) If the department fails to provide a unique approval number to a gun dealer or to
notify the gun dealer that the purchaser is disqualified under paragraph (a) of this
subsection before the close of the gun dealer’s next business day following the request
by the dealer for a criminal history record check, the dealer may deliver the handgun to
the purchaser.
What exactly am I missing here?
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Old March 7, 2013, 09:53 PM   #28
2ndsojourn
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Salmoneye, I believe if they release the gun and the NICS check comes back denied in the meantime, the FFL is charged with trying to get the gun back. I don't know what the repercussions are for the FFL if they're unsuccessful but maybe one of the FFL's here can answer that.
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Old March 8, 2013, 02:44 AM   #29
graphic97501
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I had the gun transfered from PA to Oregon to a local shop (paid $25. trans fee). since the local gun shop is not making any money from the gun I do not think they will take a chance and let it go. If they were making money off this sale maybe.
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Old March 8, 2013, 06:53 AM   #30
Salmoneye
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I know nothing about Oregon, and certainly not about Oregon FICS, but from their own publication (the PDF I linked), if the FFL does not hear back from FICS within one business day, they are free to release the gun...

The entire point of the FICS is that it is 'INSTANT', and if they can not determine that you are "disqualified" and should be 'Denied' within one business day, then you are considered cleared to take possession from the FFL...

In their own literature there is no provision for a delay beyond "close of the gun dealer’s next business day following the request by the dealer for a criminal history record check"...

Quote:
(b) If the department is unable to determine if the purchaser is qualified or
disqualified from completing the transfer within 30 minutes, the department shall notify
the dealer and provide the dealer with an estimate of the time when the department will
provide the requested information.
(c) If the department fails to provide a unique approval number to a gun dealer or to
notify the gun dealer that the purchaser is disqualified under paragraph (a) of this
subsection before the close of the gun dealer’s next business day following the request
by the dealer for a criminal history record check, the dealer may deliver the handgun to
the purchaser.
If I am wrong, someone feel free to show me chapter and verse where Oregon statutes allow a delay past close of next business day...
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Old March 8, 2013, 07:24 AM   #31
Salmoneye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndsojourn
Salmoneye, I believe if they release the gun and the NICS check comes back denied in the meantime, the FFL is charged with trying to get the gun back. I don't know what the repercussions are for the FFL if they're unsuccessful but maybe one of the FFL's here can answer that.
This is not NICS, it is the FICS program that Oregon voted in so as to have a Thumprint Record of sales through FFL...It is my understanding that one of the reasons this passed and was signed is that it was 'Instant', and potentially took less time than an NICS check...If the FICS can not give the FFL a direct answer within 30 minutes, the transfer is deemed "Pended"...

It is my understanding that with NICS if the FFL does not 'hear back' within 3 business days, that they are free to transfer the gun...

It sure looks to me like FFL's in Oregon can release the gun after one business day if they do not 'hear back' (But it appears the Federal 3 day wait applies pg. 6 of linked PDF)...If they do 'hear back', the only responses are supposed to be "Approved" or "Denied"...

It seems as though the FFL in this situation is the one not releasing the gun, even though he is allowed to by law...

Pg 6 Linked PDF:
Quote:
"Regardless of a FFL dealer’s decision concerning the release requirements, the
FICS Unit must continue to research the issue until a final determination can be
reached. During this process, the FICS Unit may request that the FFL dealer
provide the thumbprints to the FICS Unit for positive identification, as stated in ORS
166.412 (4)(c). If an FFL dealer is unable to send the thumbprints by fax, they will
be required to mail the thumbprints to the FICS Unit. In some instances if the
transaction cannot be completed within the initially estimated time provided, as a
courtesy, the FICS Unit will provide a new estimated date for completion."
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Old March 8, 2013, 08:17 AM   #32
2ndsojourn
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From page 6 linked PDF:
"(c) If the department fails to provide a unique approval number to a gun dealer or to
notify the gun dealer that the purchaser is disqualified under paragraph (a) of this
subsection before the close of the gun dealer’s next business day following the request
by the dealer for a criminal history record check, the dealer may deliver the handgun to
the purchaser. "


The key word is may.

Kinda like the may issue a carry permit here in NJ.
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Old March 8, 2013, 08:25 AM   #33
AH.74
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Quote:
The key word is may.
Exactly.

I've made it clear that I believe this situation sounds very strange and doesn't seem to add up completely. I've heard of delays but never of one this extended or complicated.

That being said, I do not believe it becomes the FFL's obligation to retrieve a gun if released; I believe that becomes an issue for law enforcement.

Also, back to the above- an FFL does not have to release the gun. For example, Walmart has a policy that they will not do so without an approval- if it takes more than 3 days for this to occur, you have no choice but to wait or go to another vendor.
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Old March 8, 2013, 10:21 AM   #34
Salmoneye
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The key word is may.
Exactly.
I've made it clear that I believe this situation sounds very strange and doesn't seem to add up completely. I've heard of delays but never of one this extended or complicated.

That being said, I do not believe it becomes the FFL's obligation to retrieve a gun if released; I believe that becomes an issue for law enforcement.

Also, back to the above- an FFL does not have to release the gun. For example, Walmart has a policy that they will not do so without an approval- if it takes more than 3 days for this to occur, you have no choice but to wait or go to another vendor.
I guess that was my convoluted point all along, and thanks for crystallizing it...

This is an issue with the FFL, and not the State...

The FFL 'may' transfer the gun, but obviously does not wish to for some reason...
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Old March 9, 2013, 03:08 PM   #35
graphic97501
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As I said in early post Oregon State Police Investigator called me Jan 20 . 17 day after first delay "That I would be approvied and she would call gun shop"
I thought with that comment it would be next day or two. This Sunday 3/10 will be 6 weeks since that call.

I did call and got a call back on 3/8/2013 and she was mad I had called but said it takes as long as it takes 2,3,4 weeks old file could take time to find.

What if they never find or it was distroyed? 1979 paper file. for a traffic DWS

I did call my State Rep and the State Police told him what they told me, he said just be patient.

THIS MONDAY 3/11 IS WHEN THIS DELAY IS OVER SHOULD IT BE DELAYED AGAIN THIS WILL MAKE 4 DELAYS.

When Oregon is delaying me for a traffic from 1979 something is wrong !!!!
I have bought lots of guns in Oregon since then - one just 6 months ago and approved in 15 min.

Oregon screwed up 10 times before or they are screwing up now!



All Oregon voters call you State Rep and tell them to get Oregon State Police out of the backgound Check biz. Thanks!

Last edited by graphic97501; March 9, 2013 at 03:24 PM.
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Old March 9, 2013, 03:18 PM   #36
MercyfulFate
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Posts: 138
I'm in Massachusetts and get a DELAY every single time (2 guns so far, 1 private sale) and I guarantee it's because of an arrest in 2008 that was dropped. The FBI always calls the dealer back on the 3rd day and it goes through, but it's annoying. It means I can never buy a gun far from my home because I'd have to go all the way back.

I've thought about doing the VAF with NICS so it stops, but I'm not sure. Funny that the arrest didn't faze the police or my state, but NICS goes stupid when I try to buy a gun.
__________________
Massachusetts Native (Tough to be a gun owner!)

Owner of: S&W Model 10-5, Beretta 92fs and a Mossberg Maverick 88 "Security" Shotgun
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Old March 9, 2013, 06:23 PM   #37
AH.74
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Quote:
When Oregon is delaying me for a traffic from 1979 something is wrong !!!!
I have bought lots of guns in Oregon since then - one just 6 months ago and approved in 15 min.

Oregon screwed up 10 times before or they are screwing up now!
I would strongly consider going to the court and requesting and obtaining copies of your records personally. You should have your own just in case if it's causing this much of a problem.
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Old March 9, 2013, 06:25 PM   #38
AH.74
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I've thought about doing the VAF with NICS so it stops, but I'm not sure. Funny that the arrest didn't faze the police or my state, but NICS goes stupid when I try to buy a gun.
What's not to be sure about? Just do it. All you need to do is fill the form out, get some fingerprints done, and send it in. There's no cost other than obtaining the prints.
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Old March 9, 2013, 09:20 PM   #39
seeker_4
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In NV they put a 3 day hold, and after that it is either unresolved or approved. If it's unresolved you have to go through hoops for approved. It is however up to the FFL dealer, he can release it or hold it. Scheels has a policy of no release until approved, such you can forget it until you do all the hoops NICS asks for. Cabela's lost enough business they changed thier policy and after 3 days they release it to the purchaser. Most dealers release after three days.
I held a TS clearance and NICS cannot get information on me, such I got three day hold every time. Reasoning, they could not obtain information on me (as I don't exist or ID made up). I'm a retired LEO and 19 1/2 years DOD and I got held EVERY time, yet if ANYTHING were to be derogatory in my background it would stop my clearance. Go figure the reasoning?
Fortunately I'm in the position to hold a Fed CCW and now retired. But I still hear the stories of others NICS does this to. Some have obtained PINs thru NICS but the hoops take lots of time. Some have gotten state CCW's, and some just accept 3 days or do the hoops.
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Old March 9, 2013, 09:44 PM   #40
ScottRiqui
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Quote:
I held a TS clearance and NICS cannot get information on me, such I got three day hold every time. Reasoning, they could not obtain information on me (as I don't exist or ID made up). I'm a retired LEO and 19 1/2 years DOD and I got held EVERY time, yet if ANYTHING were to be derogatory in my background it would stop my clearance. Go figure the reasoning?
I don't think there's any rhyme or reason as to why some people with "clean" records routinely get delayed. I've got a current TS/SCI clearance with the DoD, and in a dozen or so purchases, I've *never* gotten anything other than an immediate "proceed" from NICS.
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Old March 10, 2013, 06:26 PM   #41
Dragline45
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Funny thing is this was a charge and dropped with no court appearance. But as you all know everything on you record never comes off even if dropped, found not guilty.
Jump through enough hoops and you should be fine.

Last edited by Dragline45; March 12, 2013 at 11:28 PM.
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Old March 10, 2013, 08:13 PM   #42
seeker_4
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Would individual state reporting have anything to do with it? As in procedures? I thought NICS was national and all had same training? I know in Oregon it is run by State Police, and in Nevada by the Dept of Public Safety (highway patrol), but I thought training was same and reporting same.
Would NICS report differently by state procedures or policies??
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Old March 11, 2013, 10:53 AM   #43
DMZX
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Quote:
All Oregon voters call you State Rep and tell them to get Oregon State Police out of the backgound Check biz. Thanks!
I think that the OSP does a very good job on back ground checks. All it takes is one phone call to Salem and about 10 seconds to get approval. I like that!

I can't justify calling my State Representative to demand change based on your one bad experience. I can not imagine how anyone else could do it any faster or more efficiently. Sorry.
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Old March 12, 2013, 02:28 PM   #44
graphic97501
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Finally got Approved 9 weeks after first Delayed.

I have heard from lots of people it is better to have Oregon do the background checks then having the Feds do it. I don't know if one is better then the other I just know Oregon put a delay on me for no reason. A dropped traffic violation from 1979 ??

Dropped cases should not even come up.
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Old March 12, 2013, 02:29 PM   #45
2ndsojourn
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Maybe now that you're approved you should buy a few more guns while you can.
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