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Old February 24, 2013, 11:28 PM   #26
BuckRub
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Ruger you almost quoted my post #22. But I guess it sounds better when you say it. Lol
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Old February 25, 2013, 05:18 PM   #27
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You're right BuckRub, I didn't notice that before!
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Old February 25, 2013, 08:43 PM   #28
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shooting regular store bought loads really no difference between 10mm and .40. Buy some hot loads like buffalo bore though, and you definitely feel a large increase in recoil, to me like shooting a 9mm then shooting hot 357 loads.
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Old February 26, 2013, 08:01 PM   #29
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You're right on the money in considering the 10mm for woods carry and blackie protection. I opted for the G29 for a little more portability and haven't been sorry. I love the smaller grip and if I want more of a handful, I just use a G20 magazine and sleeve. It is my EDC when I am at my place in the Huron National Forest. I use a 3" 1911 for the concrete jungle, but you don't need to change if you don't want to, as much of the 10mm factory stuff isn't much better than .40 S&W. PMC, Hornady, and Winchester are about the only ones I can think of that produce full-power stuff, other than the Double-Taps, Buffalo Bores and some others that you won't find on dealers' shelves.
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Old February 27, 2013, 04:17 PM   #30
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Thanks I've got a lot of thinking to do. Responding to your post Ruger45LC, I have considered buying a .44 magnum for awhile, either a S&W 629 or 29, probably in a 6".
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Old February 27, 2013, 07:19 PM   #31
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If you've got the 10mm itch, you're gonna have to scratch it sooner or later. I rationalized myself out of the 10mm for years. I finally went ahead and made the plunge (Glock 20) and have no regrets.

I don't think there's much, if anything, that I personally need the 10mm to do that other calibers don't do just as well. But I really enjoy shooting 10mm ammo with higher end ballistics (e.g., 165 gr bullet at 1400 fps). I like the loud "BOOM", the accuracy, and the knowledge that I'm getting ballistics somewhere between a 357 mag and a 41 mag.

Sure, a Glock 21 in 45 acp might have been more practical, and cheaper to shoot, and there are other calibers that have better documented real-world performance. But I see the 10mm as something unique. It's definitely not a caliber for someone who buys ammo from Wal-Mart on their way to the range. If I didn't handload, I'd have no ammo during this current shortage. And those are all trade-offs I'm willing to make.
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Old February 27, 2013, 07:29 PM   #32
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Thinking about a glock 20, need advice

I ended up with the 20c using the rational that I could always shoot a non compensated barrel with it. Compensated or not, I haven't regretted owning my 20 for a single second.
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Old February 28, 2013, 04:02 AM   #33
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10mm

Lets be sure and compare apples to apples. Matching a 5.25" barreled G35/.40 to a 4.5 tubed G20/10mm is not a level playing field. The shorter barreled G22/.40 is the comparison that needs to be looked at, and I'd find it hard to believe if that combo broke 1200 fps, much less 1250, w/ a 180 gr slug.

Lots of .40 ammo is sort of mild. I ran some factory 180 FMJ thru my .40 Hi-Power the other day and got 950 fps as an average. Even milk toast 10mm will top that easily.

As far as .44 mags go, there is no doubt that the .44M is more versatile a cartridge, up and down the power scale than the 10mm. The issue is with the "launcher". Big bore revolvers are typically.... big, even the 4" barreled versions go well in excess of 40 oz. ( my 629 .44Mtn is supposed to weigh 39 ounces) The Glock 20 comes in at well less than 30 oz. I'm gambling near 3/4 of a pound lighter. That matters on a gun you are going to tote all day over hill and dale. And full power .44 in a shorty can be obnoxious to shoot. And .44M revolvers are no where near as easy to carry, dimensionally bigger in every aspect than a G20, and festooned with hammer and target type sights that snag and gouge and are a shade delicate to boot.

I have basically retired a 629 Mtn as a heavy woods gun (no it is not for sale) in favor of a G20 due to the portability factor and the fact that full house .44M was so nasty to shoot through the light weight revolver. The G20 carries easily in a variety of holsters, is anvil tough, and offers hi-cap as a bonus, all with a powerful cartridge that is extremely manageable.
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Old February 28, 2013, 11:21 AM   #34
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I would point out that I mentioned the 5.3" G35 to the 4.6" G20 because both are factory options, there is no factory longslide 10mm. However I typically compare 6" 10mm to 6" .40, but the same comparison could be made with a 4.5" G22 and a 4.6" G20. Not only is 1200 is possilbe in a G22, it can be done in the shorter 4" G23. It's my opinion that 1200 fps is plenty for any 180gr JHP, as moving it faster is only typically going to hurt penetration and the extra energy you do get isn't going to be the deciding factor in overall effectiveness, but less penetration could be.

I agree that the a revolver is going to be heavier, but if it's power you want, that's the price that has to be paid. Unless you're bad off, most aren't going to fatigue carrying around any handgun all day long, 1lb or so isn't that great of a difference. The point I'm trying to make is simple, comparing a warm 10mm to a warm .40 is only going to give you about 7-8% increase in velocity using the same bullet. That's not enough to make the difference between certain kill vs. no kill. By going up in caliber and weight you gain a lot more than just a slight bump up in velocity. From a 6" barrel:

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Old February 28, 2013, 11:36 AM   #35
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Don't these stats show a significant difference in power:
Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 220 Grains
Bullet Style: Hardcast Flat Nose
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1200 fps
Muzzle Energy: 703 ft. lbs.



Caliber: 40 S&W
Bullet Weight: 180 Grains
Bullet Style: Speer Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1100 fps
Muzzle Energy: 484 ft. lbs.
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Old February 28, 2013, 06:24 PM   #36
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There is also the size difference, and actual performance vs published ballistics. This is my G-20 next to my 3" barreled 629. The Glock is over 3/4 lb lighter and still 1" shorter.

On paper a 44 mag looks impressive, but folks forget those ballistics are from 8" barrels. Shoot those loads from shorter 3-4" barrels that people actually carry and things change.

The Glock chronographs 1315 fps with 200 gr hardcast lead. The 629 chronographs 1150 fps with 240 gr bullets. The 44 mag still has the edge, but not nearly as much as many think. Not enough for me to carry a longer, heavier gun that only holds about 1/3 the ammo.

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Old March 1, 2013, 11:31 PM   #37
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For the life of me, I can't understand why the 10mm, for decades now, isn't more popular than is because its such an extraordinarily versatile round (well, it's expensive because its not popular).

You can shoot the round nearly downloaded to the very pleasant to fire .40 S&W or upload it to past .357 Magnum capability.

I own two 10mm pistols. I shoot a mixed bag of downloaded 10mm for fun, and the hottest 10 mm when camping in bear country. Drop in a .40 S&W barrel, and you can shoot much less expensively as well.
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Old March 2, 2013, 12:03 PM   #38
Ruger45LC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CurlyQ.Howard
Don't these stats show a significant difference in power:
Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 220 Grains
Bullet Style: Hardcast Flat Nose
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1200 fps
Muzzle Energy: 703 ft. lbs.


Caliber: 40 S&W
Bullet Weight: 180 Grains
Bullet Style: Speer Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1100 fps
Muzzle Energy: 484 ft. lbs.
From what I've loaded, I can get a 220gr hardcast at almost 1250 fps from a 6.6" 10mm. The same 220gr hardcast can leave a shorter 6" barreled .40 at 1100 fps. This fits my assessment and I don't personally find 150 fps to be worthwhile, especially since either one will penetrate very deep.
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Old March 2, 2013, 12:14 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr40
There is also the size difference, and actual performance vs published ballistics. This is my G-20 next to my 3" barreled 629. The Glock is over 3/4 lb lighter and still 1" shorter.

On paper a 44 mag looks impressive, but folks forget those ballistics are from 8" barrels. Shoot those loads from shorter 3-4" barrels that people actually carry and things change.

The Glock chronographs 1315 fps with 200 gr hardcast lead. The 629 chronographs 1150 fps with 240 gr bullets. The 44 mag still has the edge, but not nearly as much as many think. Not enough for me to carry a longer, heavier gun that only holds about 1/3 the ammo.
I'm a Glock guy through and through, but what I do know is that 1315 fps with a 200gr in a G20 is HOT, no make that very hot. I've seen those numbers from 6" barrels, but not stock 4.6" barrels. Either way it's likely loaded well over pressure.

On the other hand, a 44 shooting a 240gr at 1150 from a 4" is generally a lower powered option. You could easily be shooting a 300gr hardcast that fast with the 4" bbl. So I'm inclined to ask, do you think the 44 and the 10mm are similar? I think the .44 is miles ahead of the 10mm and the 10mm much closer to the .40 S&W.
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Old March 2, 2013, 01:45 PM   #40
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Ruger45LC, What muzzle energy do your 10mm (1250 fps) and .40 caliber (1100 fps) 220 grain loads develop?
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Old March 3, 2013, 07:02 PM   #41
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The 10mm load was really about 1230 fps which is 739 ft-lbs, the 1100 fps .40 load is 591 ft-lbs.
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Old March 3, 2013, 07:07 PM   #42
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Thanks!
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Old March 9, 2013, 02:33 PM   #43
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Just a comment. I bought a G20 new about a decade ago and then sold it about 4 years later because I could never get used to the flexing in the frame during firing. After 5 more years I bought it back because even if the frame flexes there is something about 15 rounds of 10mm that makes a great house gun.

Get the gun, you won't regret it. It is the one gun I sold that I really regretted until I bought it back.
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Old March 10, 2013, 02:27 PM   #44
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I've owned a G20 for a few years now. I use it when we go to our cabin in the mountains. I keep a Rem 870 pump shotgun, loaded with slugs, for a home defense/bear stopper in the cabin. I can't carry it with me every where I go, so I carry the G20 when I can't carry the shotgun. I've started reloading and have a Storm Lake barrel ordered so I can safely shoot my reloads. I want the added chamber support, plus the barrel rifling for when I shoot lead bullets instead of plated ones. Hey it might not be the best bear gun on the market, but it works for me.
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Old March 10, 2013, 08:43 PM   #45
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As mentioned I prefer the G21 and add the 460 Rowland conversion kit.

I debated this G20 G21 decision for years.
My friend has the G20 and loves it. His favorite gun.
Once i get the conversion we will shoot 'em side by side.
I will have to post findings.
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Old March 11, 2013, 05:08 PM   #46
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I'm with the .45 ACP crowd but would recommend the XDm because of better ergonomics, better support for the case with a match grade barrel. Then you have a practical defense pistol and when you want power above the 10mm, put a heavier recoil spring in and shoot .45 Super.

230 gr. bullets in .45 Super go where no 10mm will tread, making it a better choice on hogs and such.
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Old March 11, 2013, 06:58 PM   #47
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I think jmr40 nailed it with his first paragraph summary on page 1.

The 10mm is known to be an effective hunting sidearm. For use against two legged predators, it's extreme penetration and stout felt recoil are qualities that I believe are counter productive. Despite how popular the Tim Taylor approach is in some circles, it's not always true that WE NEED MORE POWER!!! 9mm, .40, .357, and .45 gain value as defensive loads by being less powerful, more controllable rounds. To clarify, I'm talking about control under rapid fire, not slow fire.

As a hunting or recreational buy, go for it. For defensive carry or HD, look elsewhere.

These are my opinions, nothing more.
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Old March 11, 2013, 08:32 PM   #48
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Rather have a sister in a whore house, than a brother with a glock.
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