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Old March 6, 2013, 07:21 AM   #1
fallingrock71
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Apart from availability, is there any downside to number 1 buckshot for SD?

I can't help but wonder why no. 1 buck isn't much more popular for SD. From my limited research it seems that on target no. 1 is as effective perhaps even more effective than 00 or 000. Even better off target as far as not penetrating walls and such.

I've wondered for years why so few manufacturers offer no. 1 in 12 gauge. Is there something I'm missing here? Is there a reason why 00 is the "standard?"
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Old March 6, 2013, 07:28 AM   #2
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Oops, I did not mean to imply that no. 1 won't penetrate walls and stuff. I just meant that it wouldn't penetrate as much as 00 or 000.
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Old March 6, 2013, 09:24 AM   #3
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Quote:
I'm missing here? Is there a reason why 00 is the "standard?"
LE and MIL contracts.

#1 is a great SD round for sure.
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Old March 6, 2013, 05:38 PM   #4
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Less likely to over penetrate and more coverage on the target, whats not to love for SD purposes.
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Old March 7, 2013, 04:11 AM   #5
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IMO it just comes down to availability and public awareness (or lack thereof) of the round, because it is a great defensive load.

Because LE and Military have pretty much standardized 00 buck, it is plentiful, and is what many people will grab to use. Goes back to the old principle, "Since the military uses it, we should too!" (tongue in cheek)....
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Old March 7, 2013, 07:08 AM   #6
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Seems to me it would benefit the military and LE as well. Especially LE. I guess it is one of those things where it is not available because everyone buys 00 buck and everyone buys 00 buck because #1 is not available. Kinda funny that there are so many new offerings in self defense 12 gauge like combinations of slugs and buckshot and whatnot yet nobody is pushing an obvious choice.

Hey ammo manufacturers, if you build it they will come!
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Old March 7, 2013, 01:11 PM   #7
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I'd say it's got a lot to do with tradition. Most laypersons and casual gun enthusiasts (not the ones who talk about SD as a hobby) have probably only heard of 00 Buck, if anything. Plus it's got a catchy name--"Double Aught Buck". Walking into the hardware store and saying "Give me a box of single aught buck, Joe" just ain't got the same ring.
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Old March 7, 2013, 01:27 PM   #8
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Joe Biden recommends 00

I am personally a fan of #1 or #4 buck over 00 and 000. I occasionally take a shotgun lion hunting behind hounds if I know the timber will be really thick. #1 and #4 nestle in the hull much more efficiently, giving you much better density and more pellets.


Example...#4 is only 30% smaller than #00 but gives 21 pellets / oz compared to 9 / oz of #00. That is an increase of over 100%.

#1 is not quite as good but still better....10% smaller but 20 % more pellets per ounce
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Old March 7, 2013, 01:36 PM   #9
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Double Aught Buck has become synonymous for buckshot in general - much like Xerox has become synonymous with copy.
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Old March 8, 2013, 06:44 PM   #10
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Most guys probably don't know that buckshot comes in any other size than OO. Or care.
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Old March 8, 2013, 06:46 PM   #11
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In a hunter education class in the late 1970s, I was told that #1 buck was the ideal load for the 12 gauge as far as buckshot-required deer hunting was concerned.

I've tried #1 buck in any number of shotguns since then. I have yet to find a barrel/choke that will give me a decent pattern with #1 buck. I'm told they're out there, but I have yet to run across one.

Meanwhile patterns with 00 buck over the years have gone from acceptable to incredible. There's still some Remington #1 buck loads in the MISC BUCK ammo can just in case, left over from buying out an end-of-season supply at a big box sporting goods store several years ago, and I'm still looking...
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Old March 9, 2013, 10:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
...#1 and #4 nestle in the hull much more efficiently, giving you much better density and more pellets.


Example...#4 is only 30% smaller than #00 but gives 21 pellets / oz compared to 9 / oz of #00. That is an increase of over 100%.

#1 is not quite as good but still better....10% smaller but 20 % more pellets per ounce
Not to nit-pick too much, but it's probably not accurate to say "#4 is only 30%" smaller." You could say that the diameter is 30% less, but since overall size (volume), and consequently mass, are based on cubing the radius, a #4 buck ball is more than 60% smaller (and lighter) than a 00 buck ball.

Based on listed diameters of .24" for #4, .30" for #1, and .33" for 00, along with the standard density of lead...

A #4 buck ball weighs about 20.7 grains.
A #1 buck ball weighs about 40.5 grains.
An 00 buck ball weights about 53.9 grains.

Multiplied by standard pellet counts...

#4 would hold about 558.9 grains (1.28 oz) of lead ...20.7*27
#1 would hold about 648.0 grains (1.48 oz) of lead ...40.5*16
00 would hold about 485.1 grains (1.11 oz) of lead ...53.9*9

Assuming listed diameters really are accurate, there is a definite difference in the amount of lead in each shell. Whether that's good or not depends on whether a person wants more lead or less recoil.

I'm not trying to prove that one option is better than another here. Numbers of pellets and mass totals can only show so much. I just figured if we're going to throw numbers around, we should try to do so accurately.

***Maybe someone with a good scale and each type of shell could get actual weights. What I posted above is based only on specs and calculations.

Last edited by idek; March 9, 2013 at 10:20 PM.
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Old March 9, 2013, 11:37 PM   #13
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#1 is the only thing I can buy for my 16ga as far as I know for HD, besides bird shot and slugs.
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Old March 10, 2013, 12:03 AM   #14
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Apart from availability, is there any downside to number 1 buckshot for SD?

Didn't the FBI testing recommend #1 shot over #00 after extensive testing. And I think someone, it escapes me now which manufacturer, offered it as a LE load.
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Old March 10, 2013, 01:33 AM   #15
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Number 1B is a perfect example of an ammunition version of "People go were the roads go."

A few years ago "Single Ought" buckshot was discontinued by all the U.S. ammo manufacturers since most 00B has been reduced in diameter to virtually the nominal diameter of 0B. Road Closed.

Number One Buckshot was almost lost from the commercial ammo line-up about the same time. However, I suspect, demand in the Carolina's, Virginia and the along the Gulf Coast kept it alive. Just barely.

Federal has a "Tactical"15 pellet #1B load with Flite-Control wad for the LE market. Unfortunately, the new Federal round continued to use a reduced diameter "#1B", (.286" diameter and just 33 grains per pellet.)

You can drop in at the Box of Truth to check out the details:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot56.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu148_5.htm


After thinking about this, I cut open a round of Federal Flite-Control "Tactical" 8 pellet 00B. I figured Federal would probably use the same Flite-Control wad for #1B "Tac Load" as well. I already had a sample of #1B pulled from an older Federal Premium load. Yep, the pellets measured right at .286" and scaled in at a meager 33 grains just like the Box o' Truth guy said. My hunch on the Federal Flite-Control wad was also correct - 15 of the #1 Buck-Lite pellets fit perfectly in 3 pellet layers in the Flite-Control wad.

Over on the handloading bench, I had an 8 pound bottle of #1B from Bullet Weights Inc. - distributed to the handloading market by Ballistic Products. This high antimony, (6%) 1B runs a clean .300" (just like the label said) and just a bit over 40 grains per pellet. Low and behold that little Flite-Control wad held an even dozen, in 2 pellet layers, of those actual-nominal diameter #1B pellets. Those 12 pellets weighed virtually the same as 15 pellets of the reduced pellet diameter Buck-Lite version, (480 grains).

Taking this a bit further, I pulled the Flite-Control Wad used in Federals 3" 12 pellet reduced pellet diameter 00B load, (.323"/50 grains). The longer Flite-Control Wad held 18 pellets of the full diameter .30" Ballistic Products #1B, with a total payload weight of just under 1 3/4th ounces.

From my point of view, the greater pellet space utilization in the tight patterning Flite Control Wad, combined with the penetration of full diameter .30" / 40 grain high antimony pellets in a 1300 fps full power load, would make an exceptional, conventional pellet size, hunting and defense load..

These rounds, with high antimony full diameter #1B in a 12 pellet 2 3/4" round and an 18 pellet 3" round would combine the tight patterns of the Flite-Control wad with moderate payload weights (1.10 and 1.66 ounce), full size #1B pellets and full power velocities. A solid winning combination in the hunting and defensive buckshot market.

If you would like to see Federal make such a load, go to the Federal Ammunition website, find "contact us" and send them a message!

Last edited by RMcL; March 10, 2013 at 04:48 PM.
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Old March 10, 2013, 08:18 AM   #16
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RMcL--good info there.

Quote:
Didn't the FBI testing recommend #1 shot over #00 after extensive testing. And I think someone, it escapes me now which manufacturer, offered it as a LE load.
Federal FC is the load. For those that haven't seen it, I did a gel test of the round here:

#1 Federal FC Buck Gel Test
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Old March 10, 2013, 11:52 AM   #17
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Apart from availability, is there any downside to number 1 buckshot for SD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by plouffedaddy View Post
RMcL--good info there.



Federal FC is the load. For those that haven't seen it, I did a gel test of the round here:

#1 Federal FC Buck Gel Test
I guess it still wouldn't work if you shot two blasts into the air would it?
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Old March 10, 2013, 10:50 PM   #18
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"Federal FC is the load. For those that haven't seen it, I did a gel test of the round here:

#1 Federal FC Buck Gel Test " plouffedaddy

------------------------------------------------------

If the load you tested had contained 12 forty grain .30" pellets instead of 15 thirty three grain .286" , what diferences in the test outcome would you predict?
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Old March 11, 2013, 06:59 AM   #19
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I had never seen #1 buck in any of my local sporting goods stores and finally ordered some Winchester Super X #1 online. I had read a lot about this round, and everything I could find was positive.

#1 seems to me to be a better overall performer than #4 and seems to fill the niche between #4 and #00 buck. Some of my friends say I over think these things too much, but the first few rounds out of my HD shotgun will be #1 buck, followed by #00 buck.
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