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Old March 1, 2013, 10:14 PM   #26
lee n. field
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Counter dude said, "S&W is the hardest pistol for us to obtain right now. They are union labor and their contract only allows them to produce 300 pistols per day - max."
I have heard that that is their production rate. I have not heard anything about union contracts being any limitation.
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Old March 1, 2013, 11:22 PM   #27
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According to the BATFs Annual Firearms Production and Export Report for 2011 S&W produced in 2011:

406,151 pistols
237,464 revolvers
156,705 rifles
736 Misc. firearms and 14 shotguns

From the Houlton plant they produced 56,527 pistols.

If we look just at the revolvers S&W produced in 2011 they produced more than 650 in a single day if they worked every day of the year, which we know they didn't.

Ruger produced 610,925 pistols for the year 2011 and 193,025 revolvers.

Colt 46,363 pistols and 1454 revolvers.

So if the math is done we can see that in 2011 S&W produced far more than 300 handguns a day despite the "union rules" holding them back.

The complete report can be found here and it reports on all firearms manufactured in the U.S.

http://www.atf.gov/statistics/

Scroll down and find the manufacturing and export reports for each year they have available.

http://www.atf.gov/statistics/downlo...ort-report.pdf

So one thing we learn is to not always believe what gun store clerks tell you till you check the facts.

tipoc

Last edited by tipoc; March 2, 2013 at 02:11 AM.
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Old March 2, 2013, 02:00 AM   #28
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The figures reported in the ATFs report above also include this proviso...

Quote:
* FOR PURPOSES OF THIS REPORT ONLY, "PRODUCTION" IS DEFINED AS:
FIREARMS, INCLUDING SEPARATE FRAMES OR RECEIVERS, ACTIONS OR
BARRELED ACTIONS, MANUFACTURED AND DISPOSED OF IN COMMERCE
DURING THE CALENDAR YEAR.
Which means they count both completed firearms and separate frames or receivers as those are what are serial numbered. They count them as being produced in that year though they may not be ready to ship.

So when they count 114,132 semiauto pistols being produced by Taurus in Miami for example, it means that many complete pistols and frames were produced that year.

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Old March 2, 2013, 02:53 AM   #29
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Don't forget people have money burning a whole in their pockets, some buy guns every month/every other etc... So people have money built up and soon as something comes in they buy.
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Old March 3, 2013, 01:28 PM   #30
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"I believe the 300 a day figure is just the M&P Shield line....doesn't include the others being produced."

This^^^^^ Its just the Shield line..
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Old March 3, 2013, 02:49 PM   #31
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"I believe the 300 a day figure is just the M&P Shield line....doesn't include the others being produced."
Now that could be true.

But according to the OP that ain't what the store clerk said. So the only part of what the clerk is supposed to have said that might be true is the number 300. That somewhere S&W produces about 300 somethings on any given day is the only thing that is close to true in what the clerk is reported to have said. Oh and maybe it's true that it's hard for his store to get guns from S&W these days. I wonder why?

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Old March 3, 2013, 03:05 PM   #32
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I talked to the factory rep last summer and S&W was running 3 shifts 6 days a week. On Sunday they do maintenance on the machines and back to work on Monday.
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Old March 3, 2013, 03:50 PM   #33
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The solution is simple: dust off the the 3rd-gen metal-frame centerfire autoloader production tooling that has supposedly been mothballed at the Houlton, ME plant, and put the M3913, M5906, and M4506 back into production.
I like the way you think!
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Old March 4, 2013, 11:05 AM   #34
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Was at my LGS yesterday pickin' up some birdseed. They are a hardware store along with probably being the largest gunstore within 90 miles. They are also a major distributor in the area for S&W. I know the owners and the boys quite well and took the time to go over to the gun area and say hi. They claimed reloading supplies were starting to trickle in, long guns and shotties other than AR and tactical types are readily available, but handguns were still spotty. They had quite a few larger Tupperware type pistols, several Taurus 1911s and a few revolvers in stock. When I asked what handguns could be ordered they told me they could order anything I wanted. But unless it was a long barreled Ruger revolver, not to expect it anytime soon. When I asked them about S&W availability, they said some of the airweight j-frame .38s were available from time to time along with some of the M&P 9mms and .40cals. He said some of the upper end 1911s were available also, along with some models of M&P 15 rifles/carbines. He said the rep told them on the last visit that they were working 6 days a week, but not to hold their breath waiting for L-Frames, N-Frames and X-Frames.
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Old March 4, 2013, 04:12 PM   #35
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Like other companies in the enviable position of being able to sell more of their product than they can make, S&W does not really want to hire a lot more people or expand their factory because they see the boom as temporary. No matter how "gun control" eventually shakes out, at some point the current boom will settle down and no company likes to lay off workers or have idle equipment. So they will get along as best they can, continue to make as many guns as the can with as little expansion as they can reasonably get by with.

All potential customers can do is be patient or buy another brand if that company can meet the demand.

Jim
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Old March 5, 2013, 06:22 PM   #36
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The solution is simple: dust off the the 3rd-gen metal-frame centerfire autoloader production tooling that has supposedly been mothballed at the Houlton, ME plant, and put the M3913, M5906, and M4506 back into production.
Actually this would have the opposite effect. They would have to shut down lines and divert workers that can produce many more guns/day in order to make these guns.

They didn't stop making them because they were bad guns, but because they were expensive and time consuming to make. Even selling them at 2X the cost of a Glock or M&P they struggled to make a profit on them.

While they are great guns I hope another is never made. There are plenty available for those who want them and keeping them out of production keeps prices up.
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Old March 5, 2013, 07:25 PM   #37
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buck460XVR
curious what LGS you were at
wouldnt be Gregerson's would it?
i haven't a clue where you are at but it sounds very familiar

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Old March 8, 2013, 06:50 PM   #38
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300 guns per day , 248 days per yr (with holidays, etc out) = 74,400 guns per year.
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Old March 8, 2013, 06:56 PM   #39
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Im guessing there was some confusion involved. I would bet the m&p shield is basically impossible to get in any timely manner and thats probably where this started.
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Old March 8, 2013, 09:15 PM   #40
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The solution is simple: dust off the the 3rd-gen metal-frame centerfire autoloader production tooling that has supposedly been mothballed at the Houlton, ME plant, and put the M3913, M5906, and M4506 back into production.
Second that. I'd be in for a few...er...well, several.
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Old March 8, 2013, 09:58 PM   #41
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300 guns per day , 248 days per yr (with holidays, etc out) = 74,400 guns per year.
The actual number of guns S&W produced in 2011 according to the ATF is posted above in post #27. The numbers for 2012 haven't been listed yet.

No one here knows actually what the 300 per day refers to. We know it isn't total guns because the figure for that is much higher.

Someone suggested that it might be the number of Shields produced. But even they have no sources for that figure.

So we have only a man, who reports that another man who works in a gun store, told him that union rules prevent S&W from making more than 300 guns a day. We know that statement is untrue. S&W is non-union and produces more than 300 guns a day.

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Old March 9, 2013, 06:57 AM   #42
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So we have only a man, who reports that another man who works in a gun store, told him that union rules prevent S&W from making more than 300 guns a day. We know that statement is untrue. S&W is non-union and produces more than 300 guns a day.
Amazing how these numbers take on a life of their own, isn't it?
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